Shay: It is a mystery is that one may click on the resumes of all the bloggers here. The cv's dispel all the left wing complaints of the blog, but decisively. They worked hard, they have endowed chairs. Cush.

How can one explain this discrepancy?

Lawyer Rent Seeking.

Successful, middle class people do not need lawyers as criminals, drug addicts, educational misfits. Are ghetto residents unfit? Kidding? Let's see anyone here survive the streets of our urban rundown areas more than a short time. Hustler - top insurance salesman, what's the difference?

Hustler - top insurance salesman, what's the difference?

There are several. The top insurance salesman will have graduated high school at the very least. He will have shown up for work, 8AM-5PM, 5 days a week for years. He will have worked within a sales team and been subordinate to inferior salespeople as he moved up the ladder. He will have had to deal with and survive poor management. He will have honed his sales skills through classes as well as experience. He will not have been able to show up to work drunk or high. He would have to be able to write and speak clearly. He would have to feel at home in a wide variety of socio-economic environments and be able to relate to and be respected by all.

That list took 3 minutes to write. I'm sure there are many more differences.

By equating hustler and insurance salesman, I feel that you lower expectations for poor blacks.

Which job would you rather have your son do?

The innate talent is the same or superior for street survival.

The difference is culture. Just finish high school, learn the method of book learning, you can earn the Hawaiian vacation as top producer.

The lawyer, the Democratic Party, and its terror arm, the violent criminal, have prevented the crushing of street culture and school disruptiveness for its self-serving, power grabbing purposes, destroying the lives of otherwise innately gifted people.

SC,

I did not understand your point until that last post. You and I are in agrrement.

What this show does not discuss is that all the money going down the toilet of meetings, paper work, due process is brought to you by the dumbass lawyer living in Stupidtown, P.C. and the Democratic Party terror arm, the black criminal disrupting our urban schools. The lawyer will not allow teachers to control learning and to push discipline.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1500338

Nice review of this subject. Lots of minority victims of these thugs.

The show "Stupid in America" never once mentioned the percentage of income paid in taxes by Belgium's citizens, yet used them as an example of an education system "that works". What was ironic was that during the broadcast they had advertisements that regurgitated the American slogan "no more taxes". You can't have it both ways. Vouchers are a scam and only benefit the well-off.
Many alternative schools work because they have smaller class sizes, more flexibility in class curriculum, and the teachers tend to be smarter then average (hence why they are attracted to an "alternative" system)
And as for shay riley's "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" drone: You only reach for windows of opportunity you know are OPEN to you. Many kids don't even know that they DO have what it takes to go to college, or that student scholarships are available etc etc. I know-- I was one of those kids and it wasn't until I FOUND OUT about the possibilities that were out there that I put the energy into making a career for myself.
Can you believe I really thought universities were for brainiacs? I remember in the first week of undergrad being scared thinking everyone was going to be so smart and astute. It turns out they were mostly average, middle-class nobodies who got drunk all the time. I ended up realizing I was smarter then most of the people there and the rest is history...

And as for shay riley's "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" drone: You only reach for windows of opportunity you know are OPEN to you. Many kids don't even know that they DO have what it takes to go to college, or that student scholarships are available etc etc. I know--I was one of those kids and it wasn't until I FOUND OUT about the possibilities that were out there that I put the energy into making a career for myself.

Booker T. Washington was born a slave, yet was able to walk 200 some miles to get to Hampton Institute in order to get an education, and later built up Tuskegee Instiute from a shack. He did this during Jim Crow.

Yet today's folks - with all the opportunities before them - cannot achieve even more? Especially when we see black immigrants come with nothing and are able to do so? Ain't buying it. And your point about how you pulled yourself up proves my point (not to mention that parental responsibility comes into play here).

Shanty: I am with Shay. I will not criticize your post. Your personal experience supports Shay's point, as does that of every blogger here.

College is not for everyone.

This surprises kids. You go to Votech in 11th and 12th grades. You show up as if at work, have a work like attitude, and are not disruptive. You graduate at 18. In every subject of Votech, employers will be chasing you to take their $50K a year job. Some have cash on them for the student who comes with them and not their competition.

By age 30, they have made $500K. Meanwhile the brainiac doctor has just finished training with $250K in debt. At 30, the Votech kid is $750K ahead of the doc. This assumes, the kid stays an employee, and does not set out on his own contracting business, does not get licensed, so on. If the kid does that, there is no upper limit to economic performance if he gets a reputation as someone who will show up as promised and does a half-decent job.

The masking ideology for lawyer rent seeking is devastating to the economic performance of the people they purport to support.

I honestly believe, they know this, just don't care about anyone but their CCE. They have to be liberated from its clutches, as does this besieged nation.

Yes, the nature of social relations has certainly taken a psychological turn as of late...no more jim crow, no more blatant slavery, but somehow there is still only the rare "Booker T" kid that makes it to be all they can be.
The explanations that turn to laziness, bad parenting and poor attitude to explain the poverty of mind and spirit of most are superficial at best. Let's go deeper: What prompts someone to make decisions in their life that winds them up in the projects they grew up in, when they know it is a stressful and often violent environment to make a home? What makes someone abuse or neglect a child when they too are the product of abuse and neglect and know how painful it is to grow up that way?
These issues sound like they need activist psychotherapists more then anything...

Following the logic of the "bootstraps" argument without a structural context here are a couple of other examples I hope will illuminate its absurdity:
If Booker T. Washington was able to go to the Hampton Institute, why not all his brothers, sisters, cousins, neighbors?
In the mid 1800's 11% of the black population in the United States was free. If it was possible for 11% to get their freedom, why didn't everyone else do it? What was it, laziness? Bad parenting?
In the mid 1800's one third of the population in the southern states was black, and in many areas it was higher. Why wasn't there a mass, organized revolt?

Although sarcastic, I hope I have made my point. Apply the same nuanced analysis you do to understand the above situations to understanding today's reality. Even Jean Paul Sartre came to understand that agency has a structural condition!

Shanty: It's acculturation, taught in childhood.

The immigrant is at an extreme disadvantage, race and language barriers. School gets him out, so says the Census of 2000. He does well at work, using mainstream culture. Maintains original culture at home. I've seen the Jags, the Maximas. I have been to the fine homes, spoken to the mannerly children. If a kid opens the door for me as an adult, I will be right most of the time, in knowing he will not be able to speak English, yet. Those bad manners of American kids are also taught.

If the student refuses to learn, on top of that, disrupts the learning of others, no pity. Crush this person, all parents, dumbass enablers, supporters, unions, exploiters, and bad faith con artists preventing this crushing, for their unjust enrichment and unseemly, partisan political advantage.

The top tier trained hypocrites got theirs, speaking the King's English, studying 80 hours a week, scrupulously following the formula. Why can't they allow others to follow that path? They sue schools, police, anyone trying to fulfill their obligation, and do so for crass money and power purposes. That is called bad faith. Bad faith cannot be debated. It can only be punished. I am including the appalling, mistake ridden dumbasses on the SC. The Executive Branch has to start doing its duty to the Constitution. Send Marshals, kick those lawyers out of the building, prosecute them for insurrection against the Constitution to the fullest extent of the law. The lawyers know what that means. Only non-lawyers should be judges at that tribunal. No lawyer should be permitted to sit on any bench, nor in any legislature, nor in any policy position in the Executive, being inherently and irreversibly biased to CCE rent seeking.

There is an ongoing appeal to reverse the disenfranchisement of convicts. If a felon has proven reformation and responsibility for 5 years, he deserves his privileges back. I agree.

If laws can prevent voting by former felons, they can prevent service on the bench and legislatures by current, ongoing, rapacious, vicious, pitiless, members of the CCE, now casting the law in utter failure in all its goals, in every subject of the law, with no known exception. These are currently and hopelessly corrupt. Perhaps, no lawyer should even be allowed to vote, until he proves to have stayed reformed for 5 years.

Following the logic of the "bootstraps" argument without a structural context here are a couple of other examples I hope will illuminate its absurdity: If Booker T. Washington was able to go to the Hampton Institute, why not all his brothers, sisters, cousins, neighbors? In the mid 1800's 11% of the black population in the United States was free. If it was possible for 11% to get their freedom, why didn't everyone else do it? What was it, laziness? Bad parenting? In the mid 1800's one third of the population in the southern states was black, and in many areas it was higher. Why wasn't there a mass, organized revolt?

Actually, a brother of Booker T.'s DID go to Hampton. But anyway...As I said before, we are no longer in the Jim Crow era and a few years past slavery, when there were massive institutional barriers, not even most white kids (in the South) were going to school, and black folks' mindset was far more deferential to whites (because of Jim Crow). We are free now, and have been so for some time. You are comparing apples and oranges.

That being said, black folks were still able to build up institutions and improve our lives even under these oppressive structures. Yet with far more opportunities before us and with black immigrants coming over whose background features far worse circumstances, today's generation wants to whine? This is an embarrassment to previous generations of black folks.

When Grant hanged 100's of KKK members, black people quickly started getting educated, success in business and politics. These were earned, and not the result of affirmative action.

After Reconstruction ended in a backroom deal, the Democratic party came looking for these black professionals, business and political leaders, hanged them.

No massive criminality or outrage is possible without government knowledge and forbearance. It must be assumed that the excess victimization of law abiding black people, their poverty is intentional. I suggest it maintains lawyer and Democratic Party constituency jobs, social workers, prison guards, lawyers, lazy teachers in tiny classes, teaching nothing all day, and failing to maintain discipline, all Democrats. Same as in 1876, just stealthier and slicker. There were 5000 lynchings by the Democratic Party after 1876. There are 200,000 excess black murders since the 1960's. Thank a lawyer and the Democratic Party.

Of historical note is the fact that education was illegal for a slave, being entirely incompatible with that condition. Poor school performance is not a coincidence. It maintains dependency on the self-dealing hacks in the Democratic Party.

I understand everyone's ideas on agency--I agree that agency does in fact have an important yet constrained role in one's "successes". However, what I don't understand is everyone's individual reductionist analysis. If one person "whines" then he is a whiner. If 1000 people whine, well, maybe they have something to whine about- maybe not. But millions of people who find themselves or their relatives chronically unemployed after the deindustrialization of America in the 1980's, or facing extremely long prison sentences for suddenly invented felonies (i.e.Prop 21), stereotypes etc., can no longer be explained by individual reductionist analyses of laziness, whining, or bad parenting. The problem is bigger then that.
When something is happening to a large number of people it is our responsibility as educated people to understand what the structural and psychological forces are that perpetuate the situation. Just because the blatant laws of jim crow are gone doesn't mean the social, cultural and psychological reprocussions of jim crow and slavery are.
Also, there is a growing black middle-class who seem embarressed by their poor bretheren...
Do poor trailer park whites reflect badly on white, wealthy America? No, the white and wealthy define themselves against white trash, not with them. I think what we are seeing is the black middle class trying to identify themsleves against poor, ghetto blacks. The black middle class see themselves as "better", "not like THEM".

If you look through history there has always been those few who "made it" in spite of all kinds of social and economic barriers. The question is, why didn't everybody make it then, and why don't they now? Again, we should be applying the same kind of systemic and structural analysis that we do to understand the Booker T.'s of our history to understand the situation today.

By the way, if anyone thinks we are "free" of the world-system that enslaved black Africans I suggest a more thorough examination of the situation, Unfortunately, we are still dealing with an apple, not oranges at all. The apple has changed and shifted yes, but it's still an apple.

Oh, okay. So Booker AND his brother went to Hampton. Ooh, fabulous. Is that supposed to dismiss my argument about ALL his siblings, cousins, neighbors?

And the rants about the Democratic Party, get over it. The Democrats and the Republicans are a two headed snake, same sh*t different pile.

No, not African-Americans. American South-Americans.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3587979.html

I am not clear on your response SC but I appreciate the article. I think the teacher is approaching the situation creatively and seriously.

Supremacy Clause

You reveal yourself so exquisitely with these lines of right-wing rhetorical drivel you continually spout around here. Obviously you never attended vocational education, otherwise you would understand the reality of that track in America.

Everyone I knew in high school who follow that course is still working for six or seven dollars an hour right now if they're working at all. The reality is that there is no demand for these people since the labor force they once composed is now being outsourced to places like China, Central America and India.

I hold out little hope that someone like yourself will ever see the light, trapped as you are in a circle of self-loathing which bubbles to the surface with every comment you make. So I'll let you get back to spinning excuses for the abject failures and deep-seated corruption embedded within those you idolize, like the wanton breathless follower that you are.

Shay

For you at least I have hope, even though you just can't resist the need to express your disdain for miscegenation, i.e. your crack about Robert DeNiro. I of course know exactly where you stand on such issues, as you well know.

Also I think it's unfortunate that your post contributes little to this site, and in fact drags down the level of discussion to the realm of those trapped by their own prejudices. Regardless I will continue to hope for better from you.

But to speak to your point for a moment, perhaps you've noticed the discrepancy between how poor African-Americans cope with life in America, and how poor Blacks from other countries, who have recently arrived, deal with much the same challenges. Perhaps you should look a little closer at what instills poor people of color in this country with such despair and a belief that they cannot succeed.

I realize that you think you know the answer to that question, but I urge you to re-examine your conclusions.

PS Riley? Sounds like there was an Irishman in the woodpile somewhere down the line in your family.

Jus' messin' with your girlfriend *smiles*

Thanks for bringing that up Aaron. It seemed to me that everyone on this site had only met upper class African migrants who were living the American dream. Poor black Puerto Rican, Dominican and Jamaican migrant families largely find themselves living in the same housing projects that poor African Americans do. I know, not only have I read studies on this but I grew up in a housing project!
I was also baffled by SC's insistance on the riches at the end of the vocational training route. ?????? Ask the workers whose jobs are all in China now...

In California the fastest growing industry is the prison industry. If you have a high school degree you can get a job as a prison guard and make just as much as a college professor. Keeping your own people behind bars is the new voc ed job in this state.

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