I was hoping it was a South Asian Muslim. I lost some money on that bed. :-(

Is a picture improper?

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04172007/news/regionalnews/evil_rapists_face_regionalnews_murray_weiss__jared_neumark_and_andy_geller.htm

The EEOC has gone further in your hug-a-thug mentality. One may not look at any background feature with a racial disparity. One may not deny a felon a job, nor even ask about felony convictions prior to hiring. One may not look at credit ratings.

Given his good planning skills, I wonder if he had military or terrorist training. He tested the security apparatus with phony bomb threats. He locked the hall doors with chains. He used his weapons effectively.

You, as a lawyer, love and protect pure evil.

Why don't you just start bugging Don Imus or something...

You should be glad that a black man wasn't targeted...of course, they only shoot up convienence stores and beat of 100 year old ladies at ATM's

Griffin:

Black men rarely go on killing rampages because they like it.

Most black murders are not capital offenses unless they are done during a robbery.

The reason is most black murders are not planned, they are not premeditated, they are usually someone dissed someone, slept with someone's woman, stole some money, rip them off for some drugs, etc.

Another way to look at it is all those crime mysteries on 48 hours or COurt TV are usually white people, men and women.

The reason is black folks don't usually sit around for months formulating a plot on how to best murder someone and get some insurance money or flee to another country, make it look like a break in, etc.

If black folks gonna kill someone they typically just do it right then and there. :-)

Unfortunately this country is race conscious and more concern with race than why the perpetrator committed these heinous acts. Race, religion hatred seems to stir every imaginable cause for finger pointing these days. The guy was just a complete lunatic, driven by rage obviously. Crazy people come from every race, religion and society. The simple fact is that innocent people lost there life to extreme rage.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who notice the absurd race mentioning. Who cares what race he is. It's just stupid. It doesn't bring the people back, nor does it help solve the crime in this case. The American media needs to stop the stereotyping of crime based on race and religion. I agree with Paul Butler, this was totally irresponsible of the university to mention race. More effort should be finding out why this happen and how can we prevent this from happening again.

I lost some money on that bed. :-(
Watch them beds DH LOL

This is growing because we rather main and kill than dialogue and heal. If I am not alright no one can be alright. I prefer the men who took their own lives.

How can we blame our children for following the mores of this nation. When we wake our children up, they will have to put an end to this, and that will be the biggest battle of the 21st Century, and for humanity. It feels like the 10th Century. Where is Rumi?

"The American media needs to stop the stereotyping of crime based on race and religion"

Is it a stereotype when one ethnicity, sex, or religion overwealmingly commits certain types of crime or is it called reality?

Is it a stereotype to say that most serial killers (like over 75%) are white males? That is the truth, any criminal profiler will tell you this.

So why is this stereotype bad if it is true. Is it wrong to stereotype when it helps to solve a crime (not in this case obviously) but when looking for a potential suspect if you are right even 60% of the time?

If there was a seriel murder in your city would you want the cops to spend resources following around 75 year old black women as potential suspects?

This guy had some serious military training - he wasn't just some dysfunctional college or high school kid who picked up a gun. Judging from the descriptions of the gunman, his ability to reload, and accuracy, he likely had training equivalent to some of our elite military forces such as the SEALS.

Second - where did he get the guns from?

Gun show?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/usa_crime_shooting_world_dc;_ylt=Aq1F9BnTiKZmg6YK.p8UmUes0NUE

We must end semi-automatics and hand guns. There are so many other weapons the average person can have. Shotguns, Rifles, etc. Learning to shoot or protect one's home is not the issue. If you see a child coming down the street with a shotgun, you know problem.

BT:

"BLACKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- Police identified the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus before turning the gun on himself as student Cho Seung-Hui, university police Chief Wendell Flinchum said Tuesday.

The 23-year-old South Korean and resident alien lived at the university's Harper Hall, Flinchum said. He was an English major, the chief said.
"

This explains some things.

They are now saying he was Korean, all S.Korean males must do 2 years military service.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting/index.html

Supremacy, that NY Post article was truely horrifying...what the hell is wrong with people!?!!?!

Back to Virginia Tech: I won't lie, I was curious as hell. I wanted to know who this dude was. I guess I'm evil for that, but it's not like people aren't going to find out eventually. And how does it look when the website of Corriere della Sera (an Italian newspaper) is posting the picture of the cops handcuffing that student that they thought was a possible suspect, before the US media posted the picture? That doesn't seem right to me, I'm sorry.

GUNMAN ID'D AS CHO SEUNG-HUI

on foxnews.com. Definately Korean.

Dragon Horse,

How does this help? Does the race mentioning in this case help solve the crime? What is the benefit telling this to the media and public? Does it bring back the innocent people who lost there life and provide healing or justice to there families? Simple questions, but the true is that race issues will only cause hostility toward other Asian people.

The social climate in America especially today, is that of resentment and racial hatred. This mentality is on a steady raise. This just provides fuel to allow every extreme KKK, Neo-Nazi idiot, racist fanatic to go hunt down Asians and seek retaliation.

The concern should be more of keeping the peace and bring the communities across America together as a nation to morn the lost of love ones. It's the school officials, police, FBI's job to find out the whys, and how to prevent this again. This only stands to insight more hatred and give credence to other racist lunatics to harm or kill. Retaliation is the American way, especially to some rustic, hilly billy in the mountains, looking for an excuse to hate Asians.

I'm more concerned about the the victims. At least one young Black male was killed (the resident assistant). He was a 4.0 scholar, a member of the marching band and had multiple majors. Our community definitely could use more promising young men like Ryan Clark. An Indian professor was also killed as was an Israeli professor. VT historically has had a problem with its lack of diversity (to put it bluntly, it was racist as hell and male dominated). From some of the photos I have seen there are several other people of color who were victimized in these killings. The deaths of all of these people are tragic, but it is a shame that minorities are overrepresented in this tragedy, given VT's historic lack of diversity.

Salim:

As I said "not in this case". There is no benefit other than to satisfy curiosity. That does not mean race, ethnicity, or sex are never relavant to an investigation. That was my point.

It really does not help anything, but once they announce his name.

CHO SEUNG-HUI

is 100% Korean, can't be another ethnicity.

I honestly don't think that stereotypes about Asians are going to shift to them all being homcidal maniacs in the minds of white people due to one incident. Sorry.

Asians are more law abiding than white Americans on average. It is hard to justify a stereotype when reality hardly ever justifies it.

My wife is Asian, neither her or I are worried about some KKK member burning a cross in front of our condo...I think you are very paranoid.

Nana - Thanks but no thanks. This old guy who is old enough to remember the late 50's as a school kid isn't giving up his pistols in a white conservative dominated America.

Push come to shove...

I plan to take some with me instead of being a victim like a Jew in Nazi Germany.

all black people do is complain this was about race when they do not know who a person is they go by description and he just happen to be asian i have no sympathy for anyone just cause they are a minority and got put on the spot like that its a simple description.

plain and simple stop crying allready.

to the last posterwhat your saying is thatbecause of the lack of diversity on VT campus it resulted to this gtfoh you race monger every campus isnt suppose to have black people, shit there are more so called minority people who come from other countries to go to U.S campuses than native blacks ourselves so what does that say?

Dragon Horse,

How does this help? Does the race mentioning in this case help solve the crime? What is the benefit telling this to the media and public? Does it bring back the innocent people who lost there life and provide healing or justice to there families? Simple questions, but the true is that race issues will only cause hostility toward other Asian people.

The social climate in America especially today, is that of resentment and racial hatred. This mentality is on a steady raise. This just provides fuel to allow every extreme KKK, Neo-Nazi idiot, racist fanatic to go hunt down Asians and seek retaliation.

^^^you need a hug racist this racist that go travel and you'll see that U.S racism is nothing compared to those in other countries. kkk arent gonna do shit, neo-nazis arent gonna do shit, you want them too i bet the people who should do anything are american people as a whole this perp was from another country, if you was in korea and done something like this north or south you know what will happen to your ass dont you? that whole country will want to fry your ass.

1. because you are foreign
2. you are not there kind

if this incident causes hostility towards asians then people are ignorant this guy is korean not chinese, not japanese, not indian, so to give hate to people who are not from korea or had nothing to do with the crime themselves says alot.

would you hate meztizo people if they started massively killing blacks in california?

would you hate them if they killed blacks in latin america?

you probably bring up this minority shit most of you always bring up

oh boy there goes the neighborhood...black folks about to lose their mind. :-(

Not paranoid, just concern. I live in Durham, North Carolina and we have had several cross burnings in the months of November and December of 2006. The KKK, Neo-Nazis exist and there ranks are growing. Local news reports in North Carolina indicate this every month.

In January a Middle Eastern kid on the University of Greensboro, NC was beat to almost death just because he was Middle Eastern. A black man was beat, tied to a car and dragged for miles almost killed him because he was dating a white lady. A black man and his family recently in North Carolina were leaving a restaurant with his wife and daughter and he parked his car the wrong way, he was approached by three white undercover officers and they beat the hell out of him without identifying themselves first or making any statements. A Indian guy who was Hindu was beat to hell out of because that thought he was Muslim by three white guys in 2006. No not paranoid, just concern.

salim:

I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for informing me. NEver been to NC but to drive through it. Sound like I don't need to go there either. :-0

Following the Don Imus "crisis" - this was the first respose of a poster over at AOL on the VT shootings:

"6. is it o.k. for a black man to do the killings or a white man,the black man will get off becouse he said he was treated badly by some white people,he just have to call al shorpton and jesse jackson and the naacp,and other black groups then he will walk a free man,but if it was a white man there will still be no justis,all he will get is a hotal with bars at taxpayers cost.

white at 5:04PM on Apr 16th 2007"

Anyone still believe there aren't some sick weenies in this country?

"This article from the Chicago Sun-Times reports that he was a graduate student from China."

Normally I think reporting the race of criminals is improper, unless it is relevant to the story (if for example a dangerous person is at large and knowing the race might be helpful in identifying him or her, or if there is some race-based angle to the crime)." Bulter

Not only was it improper and irreverent to report the offender’s race, the media (Chicago Sun-Times) had it wrong. The offender is named Cho Hui Seung and is of Korean background.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048108

Now that we know his correct ethnic background, I wonder does this information serve to help us understand the tragedy of this crime any more? What can be inferred from this knowledge?

Already I can see if the suspect had been black, many people would have been quick to blame hip hop or the so-called “black” culture for this deviant behavior.

Now that it's known that he's Korean what can be said? ...that it was martial arts, particularly the popular Korean taekwondo, that caused this individual to loose his mind? (I know this makes no sense, but be prepared for many to make illogical arguments.)

Looks like there is a race angle.
Korean dude got mad some girl he was crushing on or his ex was with a black dude...that is some speculation:

They have pictures.

http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=593

cabrirhr: Learn how to read you idiot. I didn't say that this tragedy was because of a lack of diversity. And yes, a state school in a state with a substantial number of African-Americans SHOULD have more African-Americans. VT to this day has less than 5% African-Americans and is 59% male. VT and Blacksburg has historically been hostile to minorities. I know of minorities who left VT with full scholarships because of the hostile race environment there in the 80's, so dont come to me with that race monger shit. The race mongers are the bigots at VT who think that they have no duty to educate the minority residents of Virginia. Learn how to read and get your damn facts together before you come at me with that crap, you racist POS.

It is relevant in this particular case, for a couple of reasons:

1. There were reports from witnesses at the dorm that said the shooter was white, but witnesses at the engineering building were identifying the shooter as asian. As his race went to identifying the shooter(s) it was (and is) relevant.

2. He was not a U.S. Citizen. You can't exactly say the shooter was a resident alien and not mention his nationality, which is closely tied to race, especially in Asian countries, now can you?

They shut down the schools here in my Northern Virginia county yesterday. In no small part because nearly 1/3 of all Va Tech students come from Northern Virginia. My kid's High School sends about 50 kids a year to Va Tech, and 70 up Rt 81 to UVa of the class of 350-400. Like other State schools around the country - the kids already at Tech or UVa form a support group for entering freshman from their old High School.

Talked to a couple of my kid's friends yesterday. They are very shaken up, and fearful that someone they know may be on the list of the dead or injured. For my little one headed off to college in September, it brought home that even on a campus - evil can come and pay a visit.This tragedy has stolen two very valuable commodoties from these kids - thier innocence, and the invincibility of youth.

I compare this to the kids in the inner city, who often know - sometimes very personally - the victims of violence.

One would hope that if anything comes out of this - it will be the shattering of the American culture of denial and a discarding of the pyuchopathic racial blame game, and it's pimps, which buttresses the belief...

It can't happen here.

His race was only relevant if the police had issued a lookout for a gunman of a particular description. Since the VT police failed to do that in a timely manner, his race was irrelevant to the community at the time of the killings. It turns out that the killer was born in Korea but was raised in Centerville, VA (a D.C. suburb) since childhood. He was essentially an American, which might explain his resorting to gun violence. A few years back, a Black law student killed the dean of the Appalachian School of Law and a few other students after he was dismissed from the school. We all know about Columbine. Crazed mad men with guns come in all colors.

From reading it looks like a black dude-Korean dude-Jewish girl love triangle.

Korean dude flipped and killed them.

If the Korean dude made any anti-black remarks...this will be a TV movie...America loves race/murder more than anything else...

According to AP -

"A law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho was carrying a backpack that contained receipts for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol."

Which raises the question - if the kid was a foreign national, how did he pass the Virginia background check to buy a gun? Much less two guns...

BT:

CNN said he was a resident alien, AKA Green Card Holder...who had lived here since 1992. Can't Green Card Holders buy fire arms legally?

"In general, non-immigrant aliens are forbidden to possess any firearms or ammunition. But there is a big exception for a legal alien who:

...is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States

(See Title 18, USC Chapter 44, Section 922, part (y)(2) for details.)

Green-card holders and immigrant aliens who do not yet have their green card are both okay under federal law, although many people (including gun dealers, law enforcement officers, etc.) are not aware of the distinction or the hunting license exception, and erroneously think that either you have a green card, or you can't have guns.

Also, non-citizen cannot purchase a firearm from a federally licensed firerams dealer unless they have been a resident of their state for 90 days. So, no, tourists on short visits cannot walk into guns stores to get "protection" during their trip. Sorry. (I've been asked that multiple times.) "

"Virginia:
Concealed handgun licenses will be issued to green-card holders, not other aliens. See Code of Virginia Section 18.2-308, which says:
The following persons shall be deemed disqualified from obtaining a permit:

An alien other than an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States.

Licenses held by non-green-card-holder aliens from a state recognized by Virginia is a loaded question. On one hand, if a state's permits has been deemed as recognized by Virginia authorities, it should be okay. On the other hand, if the other state issues to non-green-card-holder aliens, by the strict letter of the law, perhaps that state should not have been recognized in the first place. Be discreet, I'd say; I'd rather not see Virginia stop recognizing other state permits over this.

Possessing "assault weapons" by a non-green-card-holder alien is a felony. See Code of Virginia Section 18.2-308.2:01 for details.

Without defining what it means, Virginia law prohibits all firearms possesion by a non-citizen "who is not lawfully present in the United States". See Code of Virginia Section 18.2-308.2:01.

Looks like it is legal for him to buy guns.

The I'm glad it wasn't one of us. and the let's send them all back to where they came from.

Credo:

You sound like you are from Ft. Wayne, KKK capital of the Midwest, I think those folks rubbed off on you a little too much.

Lets put it this way.

If I had a choice in the matter, I would gladly trade 1 million Koreans for 1 million hillbillies in Indiana any day of the week...or one million thugs in the ghettos of America...despite the incident.

On average the track record speaks for itself. Koreans are highly educated, very law abiding on average, and pay a lot of tax money to the government (more than they suck out of it) they are a net positive for society much more than many "native born" citizens.

Educate:

http://www.calstatela.edu/centers/ckaks/census_tables.html

Well, I admit I was interested in the race of the killer while the case was news was unfolding. I thought if he was white he was going to be some sort of crazed guy in his military uniform coming from the woods. If he was Middle Eastern I thought maybe it might be a terrorist attack. I never thought about the guy being or Asian, because I don't remember and incident silmiliar involving Asians.

he killed 32 kids. i think we deserve to know everything about him.

[Unfortunately this country is race conscious and more concern with race than why the perpetrator committed these heinous acts]--Salim

There's no better example of this than the way the national media covered the aftermath of the horrific crimes of Brian Nichols and Terry Ratzmann, which occurred on the same weekend in March 2005. There is no doubt that the killing of public officials and the manhunt for Nichols in Atlanta was more dramatic in the minds of many. Nevertheless, one would have thought that the mass murder committed by Ratzmann would have deserved the same kind of analysis.

I wrote the following on 3/14/05.

If one had been in suspended animation
for the past 3 days and awakened to watch the
news channels between 9 and 11 this evening they would not have known that Terry Ratzmann shot 12 people, including a 10 yr. old girl, killing 8, including himself, at his church in Milwaukee. One would have seen Brian Nichols and his heinous crimes analyzed by
psychologists, crime profilers, reporters, and various others, with questions like, was there anything "dark" in his past which might have suggested this?

Sean Hannity even asked the heroine Ashley Smith, didn't
Nichols say something about "race." Smith replied, that
Nichols said his people have always been
mistreated (paraphrase). Hannity was obviously driving at some kind of "black rage" motive, thus the one Afrikan killed and the other Afrikan critically wounded must be considered "honorary whites" in Hannity’s apartheid mind.

Of course, I was channel surfing and I may have missed a 30 second spot on one of the three channels, CNN, Fox, and MSNBC. Nevertheless, this totally unbalanced coverage is yet another example of the absurdity of the White Supremacy Dynamic and the extremes they will employ to maintain a pristine self-image and a superiority complex.

Makheru

I don't understand why we want to send folks back, when we shaped him. Wake Up Folks
The road doesn't just go out, it comes back. Rome
The Jamaican government begged the US government not send back those crazy street boys trained in the streets of NY. No One listen look at Jamaica.
The Koreans are the closest partners of US Military for years. They were crazy in the Nam besides those Australians. Macho is Macho add the "charm" of a American boyish killers, you grab what you want in the world or you get death from those who hate this culture.
Folks come to school here to eat the brains of the Americans. It ain't got nothing to do with learning for learning sake.
What has been coming back is getting uglier by the day.

Nana - Thanks but no thanks. This old guy who is old enough to remember the late 50's as a school kid isn't giving up his pistols in a white conservative dominated America.

BT - I am for self-defense also. One who is a Combat Vet from Nam. One who fought white boys in the 60's, and a warrior during the movement days.
But we must look at this question of types of weapons and why are they still making them.
I brought weapons from under cover cops before the Black and Latin Gangsters took it over.
So why?
Because we can see this day.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/15/us/15philadelphia.html
I am an advocate of the Warrior traditions but we don't have warriors we have mercenaries and they don't know it. They want our men as guards, correctional officers, army, or prison. The bright ones to teach and keep the mask clean.

So we as men must go back and look carefully at teaching a real warriors tradition for if not O.E.Butler is a Prophet

The gun laws don't make much difference in that part of Virginia, anyway.

I was in one shop some years ago when I saw a father buying for his 10-12 year old son what appeared to be a scaled down replica of a Mark VI British STEN machine gun. It was about 14" long, with what appeared to be a 22 caliber clip holding 40 rounds.

When I asked the store owner about it, his response was ...

"We don't check firearms for automatic functionality.".

Update from Fox News:

"The Chicago Tribune reported that the note included a rambling list of grievances that railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus. The paper also reported that Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on the inside of one of his arms.

Quoting an "investigative source," the newspaper said Cho had shown recent signs of violent, aberrant behavior, including setting a fire in a dorm room and allegedly stalking some women, and that he was taking medication for depression. The Tribune also reported that Cho's family runs a dry cleaning business and he has a sister who attended Princeton University. Cho and his family came to the United States in 1992, when he was 8 years old, and he was a legal permanent resident.

Law enforcement officials told ABCNews.com that Cho bought his first gun, a Glock 9mm handgun, on March 13; they say he bought his second weapon, a 22-caliber handgun, within the last week. The serial numbers on both guns had been filed off, sources said.

ABC News also reported that sections of chain similar to those used to lock the main doors at Norris Hall were also found inside a Virginia Tech dorm.

Flinchum said that a "person of interest" who was an acquaintance of the female victim shot at West Ambler Johnston was stopped off campus and detained for questioning. While he was being questioned, the second shooting took place. Flinchum said they are still looking into the possibility that that person helped Cho."

Credo,

After the recent incident involving the Duke Lacrosse player's here in North Carolina, there is the sentiment by some extremist Whites to send every Black person back to Africa. I live in Durham, North Carolina and I here the disgruntle complaints by Whites and how there boys where treated without justice served correctly. Not matter how true it is, it serves for racist Whites to go on the rampage of hatred. I live in the thick of it all here in North Carolina, the good OLE South.

The growing resentment between the White community, the idiot extremist and the Black community is such that they don't want anybody of color around. You have to be careful about making references to sending people back as though you are a White person, unless you are, I have no way of knowing on this blog. Remember that Virginia is in the South and some of those White establishments hate that Black people have the opportunity to go to VT, or any non-White. You'll will exclude Blacks with the mentality of get them out of here, after they becoming disgusted with Blacks.

The quickest thing a White person will say to a disgruntle Black person is “well you can just leave or go back to where you can from.” They really mean, “take your Black ASS back to Africa.” The Civil Rights movement in America was a monumental achieve for equality for all people of color. Let's not forget the struggle that Black people have had to endure, it's only been about 70 years or more that the US Constitution, stated that a Black person was only half a human. Black people have some rights now, but let's not go and treat other's like trash, because there are Asian.

Guns have always been around so what has changed......?
My guess is ANTIDEPRESSANTS
(though I stress it's a hunch - I'm not a scientist and haven't seen much research into this)

Salim has a point.

In the movie, "The Good Shepard"

A dialogue between two characters stuck out to me:

"Joseph Palmi: You know, we Italians have our families and the church, the Irish have the homeland, the Jews their tradition ... What do you guys have?
Edward Wilson: We have the United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting."

The growing resentment between the White community, the idiot extremist and the Black community is such that they don't want anybody of color around.
salim:
Who going to do the N#@#a work? Young white kids LOL
No they going to find ways to put folks in the deep burbs and use them for labor and sex.

First thing this morning, I was rapping about this topic with some Hawaiian and Asian friends. Same rap: "damn! why did he have to be Asian?"
It's the same old song.

But to tell the truth, I don't need Korea to apologize, or the Korean American community to apologize. This kid here had the same serious emotional issues of other school massacre'ers; and if he knew anything, he know that this was the perfect society in which to act them out.

AOL News has obtained a witness account from someone who knew the Va Tech murderer - and ws able to obtain two plays he wrote for a drama class...

Pretty serious psychotic.

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/#comments

you see bells story about taking black folks to outer space is really analogies to:
They are building nice liitle homes in the surburbs and folks going to say - Wow how nice, far from the city.
But no museums, no social services, no public spaces like parks and libraries. Gee poor folks don't need these things. Just a nice little home in the country, work and a chruch - to wait for whomever. Gate communities was a theme of E.O. Butler and the war developed between them - over water, resources, etc.

When conscious folks build a quality connection between country and city, then we will see beauty. If it is by the powers at hand, the above is the objective. Saves money as the States tries to make up for this new round of War Budgets (three at one time) - 1973 was bad, wait and see.

Did you all notice that the press called the shooter, "young man" over and over again? How many Black or Spanish-speaking suspects get called young lady or young man. NONE NONE NONE. We are the "killer", the "shooter", the "murderer", the "rapist", the "suspect", and always we are considered guilty first--period!

and I am POSITIVE that this is not the worst shooting in American history...just the only one documented by the modern press. I just think about Rosewood, et. al.

I feel sorrow for the victims of this tragedy as well as the hundreds of innocent victims that are killed in Iraq everyday.

Although the media choose to have bias on which killings are more important, I choose to differ.

Why is there no mention of PARENT RESPONSIBILITY on this one? Oh wait.....nevermind, the perp wasn't a Black student.

Well, I didn't find out that he was Asian from the Police. I heard that he was Asian from the witnesses that survived. The reporters asked what he looked like, and he was Asian, so they told it.

I'll be honest.
My first wish, ' Oh please don't let him be Black.'

My second wish, ' Oh please REALLY don't let him be an Arab/Muslim.'

"She said she notified authorities about Cho, but said she was told that there would be too many legal hurdles to intervene. She said she asked him to go to counseling, but he never did." So said the worried teacher of the mass murdering, suicidal maniac at Virginia Tech University, the perpetrator of this massacre. If people enjoyed this massacre, they may thank the lawyers on the Supreme Court. In order to generate lawyer jobs, these self-dealing lawyers changed the commitment laws from requiring the showing of necessity for care to proving dangerousness and a diagnosed mental illness. The Virginia Tech University student that massacred 32 people, and killed himself, now meets criteria for involuntary commitment.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/psylawseminar/O'Connor.htm

The gun laws require no change. He could have made a huge bomb instead, and massacred far more people. The lawyer's control of psychiatric care must end by federal statute reversing this mass murdering decision of the lawyers on the Supreme Court, whose sole intent and result has been to further lawyer employment and rent seeking.

Rosewood etc. ... or the Tulsa race riots ...

Troll Boy aka Dragon Horse wrote back on Feb 15 on Frederick Douglas Birthday:
====
This site is just getting stupid.

This is typical of most black sites unfortunately which is disappointing, but this one especially so, because it is run by top notch professors.

(sigh).

Most of the rest of you are so emotional, illogical, and paranoid that every post breaks down into...

"sellout", "tom", "sambo", "sell hating", "why don't you love my brown skin and nappy hair" or some other nonsense that is not condusive to any type of intellectual discussion.

This only shows me that the average poster on this site is either quite young and/or stupid.

I'm out. Have fun with this...I'm going to join Dell Gines on another blog...
====

When a man can't keep his word...you know the rest...

South Korea responded:

"“We are in shock beyond description,” said Cho Byung-je, a ministry official handling North American affairs. “We convey deep condolences to victims, families and the American people.”

The diplomat said there was no known motive for the shootings, and added that South Korea hoped that the tragedy would not “stir up racial prejudice or confrontation.” "

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20070417-1108-virginiatech-skorea.html

It is very Asian for the head of state to apologize for their citizens bad behavior in other nations...no matter how long they hvae been gone. Japan has done this before as well.

"This only shows me that the average poster on this site is either quite young and/or stupid."

Glad to see you are still being average Ed.

Keep up that stereotype!

LOL

Many of the posts here are nothing short of an affront to the mission of blackprof.com. A few of you need to stop posting here. You cheapen the blog. You know who you are. I suspect your goal is to undermine the conversation here. But I won't meet you at the bottom. I challenge you to shape up or move on out race, color, gender, etc. notwithstanding.

I echo Paul Butler's concern about the focus on the shooter's Asian origin. It served no purpose at the time. I heard on the radio today that the Korean American radio station in New York cautioned Korean Americans not to open their businesses today. Also, many people of Korean descent in Virigina were afraid to leave their homes or send their children to school. I think it's sad that ethnic minorties often feel that an act by one of their group reflects the entire group. Worse yet, the attitudes of the dominant white society cause ethnic minorities to feel that way. I doubt everyday white men worried that others would think them to be homosexual cannibals given Jeffrey Daumer's conduct.

I used to teach high school in a racially diverse area. Sometimes I would talk about my students and specific episodes: the good, the bad and the ugly. Nine times out of ten, the first question anyone would ask me upon hearing the story, was what was the kid? Was he or she Black, White,Indian, Asian or Hispanic? I would intentionally refuse to share the ethno-racial background of the stundent because I thought it immaterial. More importantly, I wanted my friends to see that they were overly concerned with race in some instances. For example, if I said James McNeil received the highest grade on a particular exam and that he always works hard but often falls short on exams to a friend, he or she would ask is black or white? My typical response would be why? What difference does it make? I'm sharing the story of a hardworking student that experienced success. I'm not suggesting that race is irrelevant, but it should not be the single most important factor when discussing typical childhood behavior that is not clearly connected to race or racist conduct.
When we racialize conduct that need not be connected to race, we reinforce racism.

"In politics, the affirmation of diversity in the interests and beliefs of the citizenry, and so political pluralism is one of the most important features of modern democracy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralism_%28political_philosophy%29

Lets respect the owners of this site, and do what Prof. Jefferies Requested.

www.blackprof.com/archives/2007/01/a_few_words_on_civility.html
"The large majority of comments uphold this standard, but a small yet meaningful number have recently crossed the line from substantive conversation to ad hominem attack. This not only demeans the individual commentor — the ad hominem, after all, is the last resort of the defeated partisan — but it also demeans the overall quality of our discourse, which hurts the entire Blackprof community."

Why are you dispecting the owners of the site that are so gracious as to allow you this venue to speak.

Ask yourself that and why they allow all these opinions on there site, when they can easily edit or delete things they find objectionable (as does happen from time to time). IF they are paying the bandwidth and have no issue, that should give you a clue as to what they want in THEIR HOUSE.

That's all I have to say about that.

I honestly did not care about the race of the shooter. I was also wondering why the media was making a big deal out of the shooter racial background or ethnicity other than to feed into some stereotype.

On the way home, I turned on a talk radio station and heard this brother talking and talking for 2 minutes, when he was completing his sentence, he instantly start babbling real fast to prevent himself from being cut off by the radio show host. Kept babbling and babbling before getting cut off and the radio show host said some people just want to hear themselves talk and have no disregard for other callers wanting to join the conversation.

Now, read this entire thread and you understand the nature of troll boy.

I second Ricardo. Can we get back on topic. Ed and DH take your mutual obsession somewhere else, like a gay site.

Now the articles are reporting that a black English professor told campus police some time ago that she had concerns about Cho, but they failed to respond. A lot of reports were saying how withdrawn he was. He also left a suicide note complaining about "the world," the cops say, but specifically he was angry with wealthy people. Clearly the young man had severe emotional problems. I wonder if people simply dismissed him all these years as the "nerdy Asian tech student" -- everyone except for the black woman professor of black literature. Studies have repeatedly shown that people of color are undertreated in medicine generally and that severe patterns of nondiagnosis and undertreatment exist in the mental health field.

The Koreans of my acquaintance are mortified. They think that everyone will think badly of them.

Salim said:

"A black man and his family recently in North Carolina were leaving a restaurant with his wife and daughter and he parked his car the wrong way, he was approached by three white undercover officers and they beat the hell out of him without identifying themselves first or making any statements."

I happen to live in NC and know that you are leaving out facts. For example, the black man was not nearly the angel you portray him as (no excuse for the abuse, but just an example of the slant to this website).

Concerning the race of the VT killer: a black man and I were watching the events unfold on TV, and he bet me 50.00 that the killer was white. In general, he is much more race-conscious than me.

In general (not every case), black comedians tend to play on racial stereotypes far more than whites. I think this is because blacks are more conscious of their own race. Yet the author of this article is in denial.

While I agree generally that a focus on the race of the shooter is misplaced here, I can't help but wonder whether race played a role in police conceptions of the initial shooting. On Scarborough Country, the host mentioned that it was first thought that the dorm killings were a murder-suicide. My question: What elements of the situation led them to that conclusion? Was it b/c the victims were a male and female? Was it b/c he was black and she was white? What led to the mistaken conclusion that it was a "domestic situation"?

This is not about race. It is about children who were murdered. Parents who will always suffer and friends who will always remember this Godless experience. This is about a university and town that will struggle to be whole. This is about a young man's parents who will never know what made their son murder 32 peers and wound 17 others. This is about humanity. I mourn and I pray for all of these people.

Orange...it is amazing that the very people who invented the concept of race, white supremacists, and who use it consistently to oppress those they consider of another race, are so quick to point out that race does not matter. You see sir, race only matters when you say it does, right? Since only your opinion matters, as the racially superior one in the room.

White people have the luxury of not recognizing race, because their whiteness is more than an asset. It is the deed to the Promised Land. You don't think about race because you don't have to. Lucky you! But that is only if you are a white person. Are you a white person?

But I forgot to add that the race of the shooter actually means nothing to me...I am just amazed that no-one has called him a terrorist...in these days where everyone is a terrorist.

God Bless the Tech family. This was an incredible loss to the families, the students, the university, the community, the state and the country. Incredible talent and brainpower lost as well. Such a sad, sad day.

Sunshinysmile:

Although it is true white racist invented race this does not mean all whites are racists.

So why would you assume that because Orange thinks race does not matter he is a hypocritical racist?

Also Orange never even said he/she was white.

As a follow-up to what Cmoney said about the lack of diversity at VT and hostility towards minorities, they did not admit their first Black student until the 50s and only in engineering. Many Black students who applied in other majors were denied admission, I knew some of them. And those few that were admitted were were restricted in their access to dorms and other student activities. This link tells some of the stories of what pioneer Blacks had to go through when de-segregating VT.
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/archives/blackhistory/timeline/blackstu.htm

The 1950's was in the middle of segregation/Jim Crow and VA is in the south, is that shocking?

Orange,

I intentionally left out some facts due to the nature of the blog. The point was to show the racially charged abuse against a Black man, his wife and daughter in North Carolina. I think the Black man's daughter was only fourteen at the time. She literally saw her father beaten by three White law officers, that's disgusting. She herself was pepper sprayed by one of the officers. I'm not saying that the Black person didn't commit some minor violation, or perhaps had some verbal exchange. What did the fourteen year old girl do to deserve to be pepper sprayed? Why did three, not one, but all three have to beat the father? Why did they verbally assault his wife?

The point is violence seems justifiable when it's people of color. There was no excuse for the abuse. Can you imagine being out with your family, experiencing a nice evening having dinner with your parents and while walking to the car with your parents all hell breaks loose.

Sunshinysmile said:

"White people have the luxury of not recognizing race, because their whiteness is more than an asset. It is the deed to the Promised Land."

When your race is close to 60 (white) /40 (everyone else), you do recognize race. Perhaps the Womens Studies texts need to be updated. And I look at race beyond the sphere of America...taking a world view, whites are lucky to represent 10%. So don't lecture me on race recognition.

And black people (in general) need to destroy this myth of the "magic white man," from whom no advancement is possible (since it is his goal to keep all black people down).

And please explain your tired trope about white being "the deed to the Promised Land." I really want to hear that one. Please tell me that being white allows me sooo many more privileges...privileges that didn't result from working hard and doing well in school. Please tell me how hard it is for those black people with good work habits and educational records to find success. Please tell me about this magic white man that is keeping them down and breaking their spirits.

You see, capitalism has a way of ferreting out the weak and rewarding the strong: you work hard and make me money or you get fired. Unless your boss is related to you, it's that way MOST of the time.

Also, please tell me how IT'S NOT human nature to feel more of a bond with those that look similar to you. Please tell me that ALL races DON'T do it -- only whites -- right? ;)

As I just mentioned, people feel more comfortable around those that look like them...there is less fear because your dealing with less of a mixed bag. Does that make it right? NO. But don't you dare tell me this is a trait only attributed to whites. Go visit ANY school/campus. Go visit ANY classroom. We have diversity, but you see the clustering effect nonetheless.

Please keep dreaming of the magic white man and how he does nothing but think of ways to keep everyone else "down."

Orange, you recognize race? I thought your earliest point was that Black people see race more than white people. So how much more often do Blacks see it than you? And when do you see it and when don't you see it?

It is not for me to tell you how you benefit from being a member of the white people club. You know far better than I do. Please, why is it that the white 10% of the population has so much, and everyone else has so little? If capitalism, colonialism, plantationism, and reservationism led to this phenomenon, are they just systems? Why should your child eat because your dad owns the company...and mine should not eat because my father did not own the company? What does that have to do with hard work? Where is the justice?

And thank you for pointing out how tired my trope is...the resident white person has spoken. Now I know better.

I do not think all white people are racists...but I generally suspect them of being such, since the system of white supremacy is so complex and so many white people perpetuate it and/or benefit from it.

I am not sure how I determined that Orange was a white person. In fact, I don't think I did. That is why I asked if Orange was a white person.

I as a Black man, need not take any advice from the likes of Anonymous. As a matter of fact, Sunshinysmile is exactly right about the luxury of being white and it being the deed to the promised land. This will always be denied or minimized and red herrings will be tossed in to blur the truth. It's an old tactic Anon., and in spite of what the white man has conspired to do, he's been a miserable failure in my case and that of many others I know.

I'm proud of the way God made me and of who I am, and if I had a choice, the last thing I would want to be is white.

What is this? Media as apologist?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/ap_on_re_as/virginia_tech_skorea

This is crazy.

Even with all their legacy admissions, good old boy networks, white privilege, racist preferences, red-lining, black voter disenfranchisement tactics, spoils of free slave labor handed down to succeeding generations, etc., whites have the nerve to assert that they have worked hard for what they have acquired. Give me a break! And even with all their advantages and what they have stolen, they still account for 44% of those who are below the poverty line.
What's THEIR excuse????????
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/002484.html

On white privilege:
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/%7Erjensen/articles_race.html

Robert Jensen has written several essays and a book on his take on the issue.

By the tone of your (anon's) last posting, you probably won't agree with what he is saying but at least you can stop asking black folks...and it seems odd that some white posters on this blog keep wanting black people to explain them what white privilege is!?

That's like me asking my foreign friends why as an American I get waved through their passport controls easy breezy or why I get friendlier treatment simply for being American, even though I could potentially be some psycho gun toting wack-job. That's called American privilege...that exists too.

Bennie said:

And even with all their advantages and what they have stolen, they still account for 44% of those who are below the poverty line.
What's THEIR excuse????????

Interesting point :)

http://www.vt.edu/diversity/

1950 - 2007 = 57 YEARS!

A lot changes in 57 years.

Point is, if VA Tech was a racist institution in a racist area in the 1950's during the dying days of Jim Crow that should not be shocking as Anon said.

Hell my mother was not born until '52, and I'm a grown married man. That tells you how much time has past.

Today though the chair of the English department appears to be a biracial woman (maybe part black) with an English accent, Lucina Roy

Nikki Giovanni is also on staff.

Dr. Giovanni said she had the shooter in her class and had him removed because he was "nuts".

The former chair, Lucinda Roy, basically worked with him 1:1 and said he seemed disturbed, depressed, intelligent, but she felt suicidal. She never said she was afraid of him.

I find this interesting.

Sunshinesmile:

"

I do not think all white people are racists...but I generally suspect them of being such, since the system of white supremacy is so complex and so many white people perpetuate it and/or benefit from it.

I am not sure how I determined that Orange was a white person. In fact, I don't think I did. That is why I asked if Orange was a white person."

I do not think all women people are golddiggers...but I generally suspect them of being such, since the system of women manipulating men with their sex is so complex and so many women perpetuate it and/or benefit from it.

I am not sure how I determined that Orange was a woman. In fact, I don't think I did. That is why I asked if Orange was a woman.

LOL

Regarding the Yahoo article on South Korea. I think it is pretty tacky for the author to list the shooting incidents in that country. It leaves the impression that it is a country of killers. What does his home country have to do with this? Don't Americans shoot people every day?

I saw another Asian student standing in the crowd at VT going to the convocation, and I gasped. My first response was fear for his life.

Also, would the blogger please explain again what we are supposed to talk about and not talk about. I don't mind following directions. Just need clarity.

If I was Korean I would not worry about it. Native born Koreans are so Confucianist their mindset is one bad apple taints the group.

This is why Koreans (and Japanese) governments officially apologize to foreign nations when their citizens act up. Bush would never do that if an American acted a fool in France or whatever.

IN the end one wacko is not going to change the general stereotypes of Asians.

Just as those DC snipers (both black) are not going to change peoples stereotype that white people are most likely to be serial killers and mass murders.

NO one thought a black guy did this shooting...most of the white folks i knew thought it was a white kid.

That is because based on statistical chance of past occurance it would most likely be a white male.

Reality reinforces stereotypes quite often.

Asian males do not commit that much crime (on average compared to other racial groups) and I don't think taht will change in the future, so the general stereotype will not change.

"The Koreans of my acquaintance are mortified. They think that everyone will think badly of them."--Sanity Inspector

Well then please explain to your Korean friends--as I will do with mine--that their mortification is commendable, but not required. In fact, please explain to them that they are no more responsible for a fellow Korean's behavior than white people are responsible for Timothy McVeigh's.

Let them know that, contrary to many people's beliefs, the acceptance of imputed guilt is not a prerequisite for being an acceptable American of color.

Ferengi sputters - "Reality reinforces stereotypes quite often.

Asian males do not commit that much crime (on average compared to other racial groups) and I don't think taht will change in the future, so the general stereotype will not change."

You seem to be hung up on a group of statistics which really don't prove much, except in our perverse American system - certain conditions may exist.

CHina has the largest prison population in the world. Corruption there is a 3 millinium tradition. COmparing the actions of largely educated and middle class Asians who wind up here to that of the general American population is nothing more than racist sophistry.

And while it is safer to walk the streets of Japan than the US, such has been accomplished only by the fact Japan is probably the least diverse culture in the world.

Near everybody in the world wants to come here...

Damn near nobody wants to move there.

Sunshine facilitates - "I saw another Asian student standing in the crowd at VT going to the convocation, and I gasped. My first response was fear for his life."

Why?

While I can't vouchsafe the behavior of the stupid rednecks who populate the back roads of southwestern Virginia...

Anyone too stupid to sepeate the acts of a deranged killer from that of a racial group...

Is way too stupid to have met the entrance requirements of VT.

Re: Cmoney - having recent experience with VT, I would admit that the school probably isn't as welcoming an environment for Minority students as some other schools in the state. However, I am not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water and claim that it is a result of some level of racism at the Administration level. Look at the faces of the victims, and you will see a pretty diverse group of people - all of whom somehow have joined the Tech community and made a place for themselves.

Fully 35% of the kids at Tech come from Northern Virginia, one of the most racially diverse and liberal areas of the state. There is a huge support network for those kids - which didn't exist 40 years ago.

Methinks you should take another look.

BT:

For someone I consider quite intelligent you allow reactionary thinking to control you quite a bit.

The fact that I may agree that "perverse American system - certain conditions may exist" this has nothing to do with the result.

We can go back and forth all day about "why" but the result is not in dispute.

China DOES NOT have the largest prison population in the world.

Lets do some math BT:

"Compared with other countries, the United States has among the highest incarceration rates in the world. More people are behind bars in the United States than any other country. As of 2006, a record 7 million people were behind bars, on probation or on parole. Of the total 2.2 million were incarcerated. China ranks second with 1.5 million followed by Russia with 870,000. The United States has 5 percent of the world's population and 25 percent of the world's incarcerated population. "

www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/r188.pdf

Being that China has 1.3 billion and America as 300 million it is quite obvious that CHina has a much lower percentage of their population in prison and a much lower "real number" of people in prison.

China is very safe.

As far as corruption...uhm when did I or anyone else say that CHina is not corrupt?

Actually though if you look at a great source for such things, highly respected in the academic community, Transparency International, since YOU BROUGHT IT UP.

CHina is ranked 70th in the world out of /163. 163 being the most corrupt.

So on a world scale they are a little better than average. :-)

Japan is the least diverse culture in the world because that is how they want it, it is their country. It works for them they don't want to change it, so be it.

Japan has a lot of immigrants mostly from other Asian nations, mostly from China and Southeast Asia, but Japan does not want a lot of immigrants so their immigration is tightly controlled.

Germany is the same way.

That has nothing to do with any of what I was saying.

The point is simple.

Regardless of the cause (which I'm not saying is not important) people have stereotypes that certain ethnic groups are more likely to commit certain crimes based on the reality of those groups committing these crimes?

Who is more likely to commit a gun murder in America?

Who is more likely to kill someone for insurance money?

Who is more likely to be a mass murder?

Who is more likely to be a serial killer?

Who is more likely to rape a black woman?

The FBI does criminal profiling for a reason.

Transparency International Link:

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2006

Great resource, used by the World Bank and IMF.

BT:

Last thing.

Asians don't commit a lot less violent crime here than Asians in Asia because they are better educated.

Even in Asia the crime rate is lower, S.Korea and Japan have a lower crime rate than most European countries. China is not far behind.

This is an issue of culture.

AMericans on average (of any race) are just more violent.

I don't have data to back this up but I would suspect that if 1/2 the U.S. Asian population was not foreign born and a large number were not children of immigrants, if they were 3 or 4 generations removed their crime rate would be higher because they would be completely "American".

I would go further to say that Westerns are more violent than East Asians on average, if you look at murder and rape rates.

www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/namerica/jamaica.html

This site will allow you to look up Interpol data on crime states around the world.

This is not opinion this is fact.

Crisis people!

Try to refrain from talking to Dragon Horse. He's an IDIOT. I can only laugh when i hear all the lies he tells.

One claim being that he volunteers to help children in the hood. Yes Dragon Horese made this claim over at Booker Rising and here said that he would never step foot in the ghetto.

Ignore the troll.

What did DH say that was a lie? Lets cut the ad hominem attacks and stay on topic.

Second Anon:

I do volunteer in DC, and I never said I would not "step foot in the hood".

I said I would not move there to live.

No quote no matter. LOL

To Spike,

Thanks very much for the link to Robert Jensen's essays on white privilege.

I knew about the Tim Wise and Jane Smiley essays, but I did not know about Jensen's.

Dragon horse
Do you volunteer in the hood in DC?

Spike and Bennie:

Ken (from this site) broke down some of Jensen's work on my site. Lets say that dude has issues.

http://pmsol3.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/white-texas-prof-speaks-about-race/

Yeah Southeast.

If you want more info, if you are in the DC area...

http://www.collegebound.org/

We need more folks for next year. Training for the next school year starts in June.

There are a lot of great kids who are very bright who want to get the heck out of the hood.

Most of our kids go on to a 4 year college (like 98%).

A lot of these kids are smarter than me, I expect some of them will be some very successful black folks in the future.

We also tutor HIspanics, but mostly black.

Most of the mentors right now, are white. That's cool, a white man and his Japanese wife told my wife about it and we got involved, however I would like to see more black faces.

Ferengi copulates - "As of 2006, a record 7 million people were behind bars, on probation or on parole. Of the total 2.2 million were incarcerated. China ranks second with 1.5 million followed by Russia with 870,000. The United States has 5 percent of the world's population and 25 percent of the world's incarcerated population. "

Try here Ferengi -

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=1324-9347(199907)42%3C154%3ANGOGPA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-6

The real fact is - we have no idea to this day how many people may be held in the "Bamboo Gulags" - and China isn't saying. You get to know some of the Fulan Gong survivors and you begin to realize very quickly that many never make it into the "prison" system as the are systematically executed.

So while you may be enraptured with your thory of Asian superiority...

It isn't borne out by reality.

What you think you have as "data" and what IS data are two different things. I'd like to say I don't understand why you spend so much time stupidly wallowing in self deception...

But sadly - I do.

My daughter attends a HBCU, so as a parent I cannot begin to imagine the pain, suffering and aguish the parents of the slain students, and the loved ones and friends of the other victims must be feeling. As a parent I’m more concerned about my daughter’s safety as she drives back and forth between home and school. While violence is a reality in crimogenic America, I believe that she is relatively secure on her campus. But, you just never know for sure.

I can say this, unequivocally, that if I were a Va. Tech parent, I would be absolutely outraged by the apparent negligence of the officials at that school. Why would they think for even a second that the first shootings were a murder-suicide? Was there a firearm at the scene? If they thought the first shootings were a fatal attraction, love triangle situation, there was still an armed gunman and murderer running free somewhere. I just don’t understand the failure to move urgently, and take all the precautions necessary to protect the students, faculty, and staff of the university.

Meanwhile, it appears that the killer was a definite sociopath. Was he medicated? Per the Washington Post:

“…on Dec. 13, 2005, a temporary detention order was obtained for Cho and he was taken to a local mental health facility off campus for evaluation, Finchum said.

Officials said they believed he was admitted to the facility voluntarily, but would not say how much time he spent there.”

Makheru

Sunshinesmile wrote:

"Please, why is it that the white 10% of the population has so much, and everyone else has so little? If capitalism, colonialism, plantationism, and reservationism led to this phenomenon, are they just systems?"

The answer to that is in Jared Diamond's "Guns,Germs, and Steel." Read or rent the DVD...it's mind-opening.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to the "White Person Club."

A bit more about the Chinese Laogai system - which by some estimates holds as many as 50 million prisoners in Soviet style Gulags...

http://www.academia.org/campus_reports/2003/cr_harry_wu.html

According to current Human Rights researchers - over 1,000 of the Laogai work camps survive today - 40 years AFTER Mao's "Cultural Revolution"...

None of which are accounted for in CHina's official "Prison Population" statistics.

And that doesn't even get into the slave labor camps operated by the business side of the Chinese Military...

Or the involuntary Organ Harvesting from live prisoners.

Excuse me ... But...

Yo' Momma know you go out in Public this Stupid?

BT:

(sigh) You are annoying.

After all of that you come back with one challenge, ONE, and that is on China's prison rate. OK...lets look more at this.

While this may or may not be true you are speculating and passing it off as fact. The fact is you don't know. You can't even produce an approximation...that counters what I posted.

I'm using stats that China gives and what the British government put out...Britian has no reason to lie to cover up China's human rights issue.

Lets look elsewhere though, Amnesty International puts out reports every year.

http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/chn-summary-eng#7

The only thing they keep saying is their are political prisoners in jails, that is common knowledge.

Hell what that means is that China even has a lower crime rate than the prison rate implies, we don't keep political prisoners in American prisons, so that means a lesser percentage in Chinese jails are there for violence than you can tell by just looking at the raw numbers of who is in prison.

China also excutes people from graft, breaking and entering, murder, rape, child molestation.

Still they execute less people per capita than we do in a year. Hmmm...and the Amnesty International report above says they have decreased executions by 30%. Hmmm...

As far as Falung Dafa crazies in Houston, they are a cult. I don't think they should be persecuted or killed but they also come from China they already knew the deal. China hates cults (due to their history). They think their leader has magical powers for God's sake.

All this is besides the issue and typical of you when you want to divert attention away from the main topic. Why you do this I don't know. Maybe your ego can not allow you to admit you are wrong. No one questions if China persecutes political and religious disedents...they definately do. That has nothing to do with violent crime rates or the relative safety from said crime when walking the streets, nor is CHina representative of all or even most Asian nations in the region.

That is like saying ZImbabwe is charateristic of all African nations, which is also quite false.

I also don't have theories of Asian superiority. I stated facts, not opinion. Asians are not superior in everything if they were they would be wealthier than the West, they are not, currently they are in 2nd place if we are keeping count obviously they have some faults and issues in the Pacific Rim. Once again, not the point. I'm speaking specifically about violent crime.

Sorry if reality is not what you want it to be, that is not my doing.

China is one nation in Asia, I gave you a link to a site that keeps data from all nations.

Coming from someone who believes in all kind of conspiracy theories I'm not suprised though.

BT:

China is one country that no one has said has human right problems or abuses.

Please explain why Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia all have very low violent crime rates?

Does Japan have slave labor and gulogs?? haha

BT:

Still not thinking.

Lets say this guy is 100% correct. Which, the word "believe" seems to indicate he can't "prove" anything, and he has cited nothing.

As I said, that is not proof, I can't cite that in an academic paper...all I can say is "he believes" this is the case based on his estimates, which I have absolutely no clue how he is calculating.

Give me a break.

BT said:

Sunshine facilitates - "I saw another Asian student standing in the crowd at VT going to the convocation, and I gasped. My first response was fear for his life."

Why?

BT, I was not referring to the individual character of the students at VT or the locals. I am from VA with VT alum relatives and a child who is making plans to attend as a scholar.

I am talking about being the "other". And the fear one has when he is considered the "other". Typically, one doesn't recognize his status as the "other" until one of the majority points it out. And that is not usually a happy occasion. It is typically with insult, scorn, or a threat.

I am talking about a pervasive fear of those who commit crimes against "minorities" all the time and are rarely punished. Studies have shown that white kids get "talked to" by police, Black and Spanish speaking kids go to juvenile corrections. You don't think an Asian kid could be beat up in a bathroom and the perpetrators miraculously disappear?

Have you never seen video of minorities being brutalized by whites and nothing happens? The elderly teacher in the French Quarter, Rodney King, Frank Jude, Jr.--and those beatings were at the hands of law enforcement. Don't forget Emmett Till..his killers were upstanding businessmen and propery owners.

I shared that initial impulse with the board to give a snapshot of what many people are probably thinking. If many Koreans themselves are afraid, and some have said so in he news, then what makes my gut reaction wrong? I live in the belly of this beast along with them. They would not be afraid of backlash if the history of racism and backlash was not there. People are harmed everyday because of their minority status in this country. All over this country, and probably Europe too, Arabic students and those who "look" Arabic have been harassed and some have been beaten, jailed, investigated, tortured because of 911. Black men are wrongfully imprisoned and their lives ruined because of eyewitness accounts--"that black guy did it!" Don't we have a history of lynching in America? Was that based on some crime committed or being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong skin color? Were all lynchings done by hillbillies or sheriffs, police, mayors, preachers, teachers, etc.? Did I miss something?

Neely Fuller says that white supremacists could round us up and put us away forever, and who would save us? Nobody. After seeing the children being seperated from their mothers, and people being shipped across the country with no way to come home during the intentional flooding of New Orleans I believe it is so. Well, looking at the disproportionately high incarceration rates of Blacks, I know it is so...we are being rounded up. And there is no one to save us, but ourselves.

Don't blame the victims of brutality for being afraid. Call on the victimizers to stop brutalizing people. And call on those who are supposed to protect us all to protect US ALL.

i think the shooter's identity may serve as an explanation as to why he was able to travel from one side of the campus to the other without being apprehended. asians have been labeled "model minorities" here in the US. because of this stereotype they are ignored for the most part by blacks and whites alike - especially in any area of violence. i think asians can slip under the radar in instances like this. the cops and students were probably looking out for arabs, white guys in trench coats, or black males - not a korean guy w/ a small firearm.

Dragon Horse: My statement was directed at folks with the mentality of using the shooting as an excuse to stop immigration. "The I'm glad it wasn't one of us. and the let's send them all back to where they came from."

Sorry. My take on the situation would have been much clearer. Cho is one of us.

Salim: same.

Listen, I visited N.C. as a young person. And I got an African-American history that no U.S. History book I had ever read could have taught me.

At home, I was protected from the south history. N.C. opened my eyes.

I was kicked out of my motel room, for putting a raced white woman in her place. I did not have a clue, that staying in a motel room, was a viewed as a sign that I was a hooker (HO).

I got put out of a store, when I told the man. Do you know who you are talking too? I did not know, I was in a place were you just don't say things to certain folks.

I went into a bank that had all raced whites folks and interviewed for a job. I didn't know that they did not hire folks who looked like me. I was visiting from KKK country.

And Dragon Horse, you are so right I am from KKK country. They try to keep us on the plantation. But, I am always asking do you know who the hell do you think you're telling too?

We are not safe.

Credo:

I'm sorry for your experiences. The best thing I can say to you is to move.

There are better places trust me. I was born in a place less than 100 miles from you in Ohio.

I don't think it is nearly as racially charged as Ft. Wayne, but there are issues.

Since that time I have lived a few other places, and I can tell you that all the South is not that way, neither is all the West Coast.

Life is too short to live like that and have to deal with ignorant morons. It is up to you to decided if it is worth it to fight the good fight or not though.

Sunshine posits - "You don't think an Asian kid could be beat up in a bathroom and the perpetrators miraculously disappear?"

No. There are certainly issues with Asian kids based on thier academic performance way out of whack with their population which have resulted in some considerable resentment...

But a lone Asian kid picking up a gun and "doing the white thing" is more a sign of the negative cost of cultural assimilation than any stereotypical characterization of Asians.

Second - there was no racial component to the shootings whatsoever. The victims were chosen at random, and cover just about everyone - East Indian, A Jew from Russia, a black student, several Hispanic kids, as well as a number of whites...

Even Asians.

I don't think anyone can look at this (except maybe Ferengi) and see anything except tragedy.

Insofar as racial violence against minorities - any casual persusal of crime statistics indicates that a great number of those perpetrators are indeed going to jail. In an environment where our jail population is 50-60% black, I wouldn't guess those folks stays are very pleasant.

This is happening despite the fact that Republicans have abdicated any EEO responsibility for prosecuting CIvil Rights at the Federal Level, and have stacked the courts, and the Federal District Attorneys offices with folks who aren't likely to be interested in Justice - especially when involving minorities.

So no - I don't buy that that there isn't a penalty for brutalizing minorities despite the several high profile cases we see each year. I don't - because prosecution for such crimes is at the local level, and increasingly the police and enforcement officials, as well as the Justice officials...

Are us.

I don't buy it because I don't see the vast majority of whites interested in anything except justice.

And lastly I don't buy it, because as South Carolina learned with the confederate Flag issue - there can be some pretty stiff economic penalties when companies don't want to put their manufacturing facilities in your state...

Because of the likely racial strife leading to excess legal baggage in the workforce.

If the majority of white people were interested in justice for all, white supremacy would not exist.

Whites still make up the majority of people in this country - so it is illogical to claim white supremacy on a general basis is anything except a reflection of that fact. Of and by itself numerical superiority doesn't necessitate that white folks sit around in their country clubs all day and plan on how to keep you down.

There are groups, as well as a political spectrum devoted to maintaining white economic superiority - numerically, that is probably no more than 30% of the voters.

And then we have the "whack jobs" in supremacist groups which constitute a fraction of 1% of any population - but through the Internet and depravity of their crimes loom larger than their actual numbers would warrant.

But the real bottom line is that the average white guy is far too concerned with the details of his daily life to be concerned about you. Much of what you seem to see as racism in this country is nothing more than the natural inclination of a dominant majority group to be unaware, or uncaring about the plight of a minority group.

As such, it has very little to do with individual racism...

And a whole lot to do with benign ignorance fostered by being a beneficiary of the perks of the majority group.

"But the real bottom line is that the average white guy is far too concerned with the details of his daily life to be concerned about you. Much of what you seem to see as racism in this country is nothing more than the natural inclination of a dominant majority group to be unaware, or uncaring about the plight of a minority group."

So True! BT
And with the new reports about the killers mental state, it shows how instutional racism and class works. If this was a darker than blue patient he would be so medicated, he wouldn't be going anywhere.

Whites and the rich don't understand that if a majority becomes apathy then social problems will increase, ie violence.
Apathy and violence go so well together. Get ready brother apathy and no government is growing
To be alive today is to remain attuned. Sun Ra used to talk about that. How he wasn't from this planet. Beginning to understand Sun Ra

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/zimbardo07/zimbardo07_index.html

This is what we truly got to re-build and not on TV

Bennie wrote:

"Give me a break! And even with all their advantages and what they have stolen, they still account for 44% of those who are below the poverty line.
What's THEIR excuse????????"

I'm just shocked. And here I thought those whites were punching those tickets to the Promised Land. Hmmm, maybe they lost their tickets?

Or...should I say it??? Maybe they weren't hard working and didn't take education seriously...no, that couldn't be it..it's gotta be the ticket.

;)

Nana sez - "To be alive today is to remain attuned. Sun Ra used to talk about that. How he wasn't from this planet. Beginning to understand Sun Ra"

And Charles Earland went to join him off planet!

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product//B000000ZG0/ref=cm_aya_asin.title/701-1258703-3144336

:)

Notes from the killer -http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/virginia_tech_shooting;_ylt=AqaQnZTBxByAgBPayvGxdnys0NUE

Fascism?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/virginia_tech_colorado;_ylt=AoIsobcD82JASIVEa9VU9CiWwvIE

Dragon Horse:

Duly noted.

In a more personal and familiar context, I would be upset if the only information released about a mass murderer is that he was a black man.

I must agree, but I am white. As I read the first article via google news, I kept thinking to myself, 'please don't be white.'

Of course this shouldn't matter in our society (I'm from Canada er America junior), but it seems to.

Brother BT, I predict that unless Afrikan Americans make some fundamental changes in our views and values, when Caucasians become a numerical minority in America, institutionalized white supremacy will still allow Caucasians to occupy their current positions of power and privilege.

Why do I say this? Currently Caucasians are a global minority, yet they are the dominant geopolitical and economic force on the planet. They have millions of "people of color" all across this planet that are willing and sometimes begging to be their lap dogs, or their running dog lackeys as the BPP used to say. Without some fundamental changes, that is exactly what will happen in America when they become a minority. Negroes are already lining up at the door to get their piece of the poison.

They don't have to sit down and conspire to be on the same page. As Dr. Marimba Ani says, it’s in their asili--the germ/seed, the logos, the essence of their culture.

Makheru

black, white, asian, hispanic, arab...

youre all idiots and so is everyone else on this pathetic rock. i hope space aliens invade earth so everyone can focus on killing THEM rather than our own people.

The person who acted was a Holocaust survivor and a foreigner. The Nazis failed to emasculate this person, the way the lawyer emasculated the Americans.

Shooter Could Have been schizophrenic.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266808,00.html

Makheru - Every group gets their time in the bucket. There are at least 3 legitimate challengers to white dominance emerging in the world...

Methinks the world order is in for some serious structural changes in the next 50-100 years.

And strategically in America - there needs to be a change in how how the internal transition is managed. Either Afrikans own it...

Or we lose.

"There are at least 3 legitimate challengers to white dominance emerging in the world...
"

who do you think those 3 are?

China, India, and an evolving pan-Islamic Federation.

I would add latin-america/Craib's Commonwealth
Stuff is moving under the radar screen. Once Castro dies Cuba will move faster and be in commonwealth. I don't believe the US or its Cuban worms will have much power over the direction.

As a matter of fact the Africans of those nations will move faster, than we.

We (AA) must act now and not worry who don't follow.
"Everything must change"

I put my money on China.

India is a basketcase, until they overcome their entrenched cast system and socialist leanings, as well as their issues with Pakistan I don't think they will even out compete China.

Islamic Federation concerns me, but only in a military/terrorist kind of way, which can be extremely damanging to our economy if well organized on a global scale.

Technologically they will never overtake the West.

If you look back at Muslim history, the vast majority of Muslim nations got filthy rich off of trade. Once Europeans sailed around them, cutting them out, they sunk back into poverty.

Then oil became important. Once the oil starts drying up later this century I predict that we will see large portions of the middle east distabalize and decend into tribal barbarism (like they were in the early 1900's in Arabia).

Arabs still by and large (actually most Muslim nations Arab or otherwise) produce nothing but raw materials and some limited banking. So tech. Turkey is a slight exception, so is Malaysia (but their economy is run by Chinese and Indians). Muslims are also quite tribal and fragmented by sectarianism and ethnicity. Radical Islam seems to be a nulling factor but it still exists, we can play different groups against each other.

I mean 200 million Arabs in the Middle East can not even take out Israel in a unified way after 60 years. Give me a break.

History shows that those who have a technological and numerical advantage usually are dominent.

China worries me and I see them as the greatest threat to the West, I think if they team up with Russia (which they are in a loose aliance with) and after they unify economically with ASEAN (almost all of SE Asia) and get a free trade deal with S.Korea its going to look gloomy for Western interests in Asia, and Japan will be screwed as the odd man out, unless they start shifting toward China, which I don't see happening for a long long time. China also has a huge internal market, man power, ability and potential (based on what the present is and their past ability) to produce state of the art technology, they are very nationalistic and unified. If the government can keep the minority regions calm and placate the rural population by bringing them up economically...China could be very very formidable in the next 50 years. They are already rapidly upgrading their missle ability and troop projection ability.

The thing about China is they have no natural resources, they will be dependent on other nations for that, that is a major weakness.

Nana:

Latin America...I doubt it.

People have been talking about the coming "Latin American" miracle for over a century.

Has not happened. They are too corrupt, too hierachycal, too colorist, and do to the massive inequality to prone to unstable populist politics and then repressive government reactionaries.

Africa, definitely not in the near future, they are way way too far behind and they also produce very little in the way of technology, they just export raw materials like the MIddle East but are in a far worse situation technologically and economically.

I could be wrong but I don't see it.

I definately don't see most Latin American countries joining rank with blacks in the Carribean...keep dreaming on that one.

Nana:

Latin America...I doubt it.

People have been talking about the coming "Latin American" miracle for over a century.

Has not happened. They are too corrupt, too hierachycal, too colorist, and do to the massive inequality to prone to unstable populist politics and then repressive government reactionaries.

Africa, definitely not in the near future, they are way way too far behind and they also produce very little in the way of technology, they just export raw materials like the MIddle East but are in a far worse situation technologically and economically.

I could be wrong but I don't see it.

I definately don't see most Latin American countries joining rank with blacks in the Carribean...keep dreaming on that one.

http://www.afrolatinoda.org/

One thing about life is that we don't always know where changes will come, exactly.
If we could we would all be gods.

i actually agree with every word Professor Butler wrote. amazing.

[Makheru - Every group gets their time in the bucket]--BT

[We (AA) must act now and not worry who don't follow.
"Everything must change"]--Nana

Yes indeed brothers. The Nile Valley Afrikans built a civilization which lasted nearly 3,000 years, including periods of domination of parts of Europe and Western Asia.

The Moors conquered and controlled significant portions of the Iberian Peninsula for 700+ years. It was only after the Moors lost Granada that Western European expansion could begin in earnest via the voyages and conquest led by Columbus.

The people of this planet have had to deal with 515 years of Western European domination and it is showing some signs of waning. However, these people have shown a remarkable capacity to adjust, adapt, refine, and retool to remain in power.

What desperate measures will these tyrants take to hold power? An alliance with China is not beyond the realm of possibility. Whoever controls Afrika, is in position to dominate the planet.

In America we have already seen the impact that white supremacy has on some immigrants. Thus, my point was that declining numbers isn't necessarily indicative of the declining significance of white supremacy. Therein lays the critical necessity to adhere to Nana’s point, “we must act now.”

Regarding this thread, I cannot see any redeeming societal value in the mainstream media showing the Cho video. This can only serve to inspire the next psychopath in my opinion.

"Therein lays the critical necessity to adhere to Nana’s point, “we must act now.”"

What does this mean? Act how?

I don't know if anyone anyone caught this, but the VT police said that, following the initial shooting incident they did not feel they needed to warn the entire campus because they assumed it was a murder-suicide. It turns out later that the young man killed in that initial shooting was a black student, Ryan "Stack" Clark. Is it possible that these, primarily white, police officers felt that it was obvious that a young black man would become enraged over a domestic dispute and kill his girlfriend?

Rebecca:

I caught that, but that would not make sense, because there could not have been a gun at the scene of the first shooting.

So he shot himself and the girl and the gun disappeared?

Korean dude had 2 guns, the used both of them in the other shooting, meaning he shot the black guy and the Jewish chick in the dorm and took the gun with him.

Dragon Horse:

Yes, in light of the facts that came out later, they realized a murder-suicide scenario was impossible. Because, as you said, they didn't find the gun at the scene and the gun Cho had on him was obviously used in the first shooting.

My point was just that it isn't hard to imagine that the police officers believed at first sight it must be a murder/domestic dispute because a young black man was involved.
If they had come upon the crime scene to find two young, non-minority women dead, I believe they would have sounded the alarm immediately with the assumption that a killer was on the loose.

A lot of people have raised questions about the delay in information following the first shooting. Here I am suggesting that the police officer's confidence in assuming the first shooting was an isolated murder-suicide/ domestic dispute may have been race and gender based.

Rebecca:

Yeah I agree...that was likely crap police assumptions. Unfortunately they may have cost people their lives. :-( That's what happens when you got Andy Griffith on the case.

BT, Nana, In the context of our off-topic discussion, see “Revolt Against the Europeans” at http://www.blackagendareport.com

“The era of Euro-American domination of the planet is coming to an end. Only the American public seems to be oblivious to this reality.”—Glen Ford

"It is time for the white supremacist Americans to learn the same lesson: they cannot rule the world." –Glen Ford

Makheru

@ Makheru last post:

ROFLMAO!!

Rebecca, they are calling the police's initial assumption that it was a black/white, murder/suicide domestic violence spat, the OJ effect!

racism does not lead to anything... now you guys are being "prepared" to hate asians, maybe your government will plan a war on korea or china... then you will have the hate background, same thing you did with muslims..

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