Thank you--thank you!!! Sharpton, the women of Spelman College, other Hip Hop artists (Queen Latifah, Jill Scott, etc.) have also criticized rap music that degrades women--but they cannot get the samke kind of press that this Imus situation garnered. Also, Black folks have been calling for an end to this non-artistic filth--and that's the problem. Just like drugs, there's no problem until someone in the white community is touched. Had this situation happened to a non-white, we probably would have never heard it!

In truth, the real reason some white people have a problem with what they believe is a double standard has all to do with "white privilege" and elitism. How dare Black folks tell white folks they cannot say something?! I have Spanish-speaking students that have their own forms of "code words" that cannot be articulated by other ethnic groups--but you don't hear these angry white folks talking about those words because they don't speak the language. Imus had to pay a form of reparations and some white folks don't like it! There would be no problem if all Imus would have done was talk about his "profound regret" just like the growing number of slave-owning states have done. It's when White Supremacists have to actually pay that there are problems.

Isn't the point about Sharpton also that he has a long history of fairly bigoted anti-white and blatantly anti-semitic comments that the media never mentions and he has never been held to account on? His actions in the crown heights and the Freddy's Mart incidents are great examples. In short, the beef on Sharpton is how a person who rose to fame as a race baitor became the standard for determining what passes for racist commentary in America. (I'm putting aside the libel/slander judgment against him that he has blatantly ignored claiming not to have any assets while he spends money in NYC like it is going out of fashion)

None of that is and excuse for Imus or his enablers.

DW:
That is a different strand of analysis, which has attached to some of the arguments in this case. But specifically for the Imus situation, commentators have tried to point out a contradiction in Sharpton's approaches to Imus and Hip Hop. Apparently, the knowledgeable and thoughtful Merideth Veira challenged Sharpton on this point. Perhaps she should have done her homework.

Nice straw man, Darren. Doesn't resemble anything in reality, but a nice one nonetheless.

The last white talk show host to refer to black women as hos was Don Imus. He got fired. The last black hip hop artist to refer to them as hos was...who knows? The list is practically endless. Pick your artist and they just got airplay somewhere n the US. Imus got fired and the hip hop artists get airplay...from Black radio stations.

Nope, no double standard there. Move along, nothing to see, nothing to see...

I can't stand Imus and am glad he got the ax. I'd love to see him followed quickly by Howard Stern. If Al Sharpton can get the job done, then he's infintesimally improved his standing after his hideous behavior in the Tawana Brawley case.

Don Imus gets fired for using the word ho and Al Sharpton gets to run for president after Tawana Brawley. Nope, no double standard at all.

This is a case of institutional racism if ever there was one. The white is expected to behave. The black is not. I'd be jumping up and down about that if I were you.

They aren't going far enough. It's not enough to be naming rappers...

I want you to name THEIR BOSSES. They are equally, if not more culpable than the rappers.

Darren,
I don't see the point of debating the comments of known idiots. The point Veira makes is a weak one. The problem with Al Sharpton is that he has been promoted by the media and many (though not all) in the black media is a spokesperson on race. The fact is that the man has a record as a bigot and yet he gets a complete pass and is taken seriously. Why does he get a pass? Why not discuss this topic on blackprof instead of having more than 10 posts (at last count) on a broadcaster who was in fact fired?

DW, why ask that question? This is blackprof.com, the home of the religion of victimhood. That's why they call for Imus to be fired. I hear that Sharpton even has his own radio show. Should he be fired for his behavior?

Err...that's a difficult question...many nuances...a lot of history of being given insufficient opportunities to...err...um...let's discuss lynching, shall we?

Darren, since you're so into links, try this one.

http://www.kansascity.com/182/story/66339.html

Why have their been no call for a boycott of BET, MTV (Viacom) or the music companies and their parent companies???

Condeming lyrics is not going to do it, that is basically telling rappers to police themselves. You have to go for those who control the capital.

Apparently the truth touches a nerve. Hip Hop is played primarily on white stations. There aren't too many black owned radio stations in the country. Even black stations are white-owned. So, if you want to criticize this, go after white stations. Isn't that what Sharpton did with Imus and with Hip Hop (him going after the labels)? They only fired Imus because he cost money. No one cares if black men say bad things about black women. Just another n---- slamming another n-----.

Thanks for the link "anonymous." Apparently, you did not read them. I questioned focusing on Imus as well. Thanks for the reply though.

DW - most of my comments on "Imus" have not been about Imus at all, but about the public discourse surrounding him. Imus, the "person" is irrelevant to me or the issues I am discussing. He's just a springboard. I have had very little to say about the actual content of his "joke."

Prof. Hutchinson: Thank you for this incisive correction. ~Joan

Postcript--about perceived double-standards:

(1) I'm actually going to do my homework and see what Rev. Sharpton actually did say about Jewish Americans when he spoke out about the racism in Crown Heights against blacks. (The blackprof.com reader may be mixing him up with Rev. Jesse Jackson.) Perhaps the distortion of Rev. Sharpton's record in regards to Imus and Hip hop is taking place in other areas too. Furthermore, the Rev. is often cited for his mistake in supporting T. Brawley but the legions of lawyers and pundits who made similar mistakes of supporting white women who made and make false claims of rape against black men (for over 200 hundred years in fact; look at the history of lynching) rarely if ever get attacked for their misdeeds of support. How 'bout that for a double standard!

(2) To the many white homosexual men who suddenly say a double standard was perpetuated when Imus was fired: how often do you participate in combating racism against blacks? How often do you stand up and join protests of racism against blacks who are beaten to death or dragged in cars? Where were you when black homosexual men were killed and assaulted in alarming numbers last year? Did you write editorials about that? Are you sensitive to the fact that only a certain kind of white man appears in the homosexual media on the newsstands at Barnes and Noble (which, admittedly, is my main experience with that media)? Would you protest against nasty comments by homosexuals like Perez Hilton on his vicious blog? Why do you not see that you are yourself being extremely selective when you choose one remedy over another and one anti-bias act over others. We are all selective.

The last time I said something about homosexuals on blackprof.com many "trolls" said that I was a lesbian. No, I am not a lesbian. As a black heterosexual female Unitarian I support full homosexual rights (including the right to marry and adopt) and I am concerned with the complexities of all of these perceived double standards. Most of the African American homosexuals that I met (and I mean literally hundreds) where at the Baptists churches that I used to be members of...these men (and a few women) were in so many ways often the backbones of their communities.

Question: Why are the defenders of Imus/critics of Sharpton in the dark on his history as a hip hop critic? Are they only concerned when he criticizes whites, rather than blacks? What do you think?

Because there are plenty of people whose only knowledge of him is what they read in the conservative opinion 'zines. Just like there are plenty of people who don't know anything about black people in general, apart from what they see through their car window or on the news.

Nope, no double standard there.

"Everybody does it" is a teenager's defense. (Not implying that you would want to imitate Imus, though)

The fact is that the man has a record as a bigot and yet he gets a complete pass and is taken seriously. Why does he get a pass?

Because good heroes are hard to find, as the saying goes. And in the absence of same, nature abhors a vacuum, as that other saying goes. There will always be a constituency for a leader who tells his flock that their lives are somebody else's fault.

Darren,

How far could, say, ESPN's Chris Berman get into this before he was fired?

Cant turn a ho into a housewife
Hos dont act right
Theres hos on a mission, an hoes on a crackpipe
Hey ho how ya doin, where ya been?
Prolly doin ho stuff cuz there you ho again
Its a ho wide world, that we livin in
feline, feminine, fantastical, women
Not all, just some
You ho who you are
Theres hoes in tha room, theres hoes in tha car
theres hoes on stage, theres hoes by tha bar
hos by near, an hos by far
Ho! (But can i getta ride?!)
NO! (Cmon, nigga why?!)

Ludacris did it, got a nice record contract and a private meeting with Barack Obama.

The same Barack Obama who called for Don Imus to be fired.

Nope, no double standard at all.

Sharpton is biased. What is his opinion of this story? For that matter, what is the opinion on Blackprof about this story? No, not the crime, but the suppression of this story by the biased, mainstream media.

http://media.www.diamondbackonline.com/media/storage/paper873/news/2007/04/04/Opinion/Not-A.Black.And.White.Issue-2820754.shtml

It should be said that most white people, Imus included, probably would not even know this offensive n-bomb slang, if not for rap & hip-hop.

Commenting on the rappers bad behavior is not the same as taking action. Every time they move, they should be boycotted, picketed, tarred and feathered. The record labels and executives should be put under fire the same way Imus was. I'm just fedup with so-called black leaders like Al and Jesse giving lip service. In the long run, the firing of Imus will do NOTHING to help the black community. But bringing those rappers who are peddling their vile lyrics about black women right in the community to the same level of destruction will send a message - no one will disparage black women or they will be taken down, this includes black males. Let enough of them lose recording contracts and see the lyrics change real fast. But Imus, his demise means nothing. Doesn't everybody know that it hurts even more when you are destroyed from within. Who would not expect a white man to say something like Imus did? This is still America. But our brothers? They should want to treat black women better. I'm just fed up with it all. Black people need some serious help - Jesus!

In this country, money is God. Imus was fired because sponsors were pulling out. This meant a loss of profit for MSNBC and CBS. Therefore, they acted. Talk is cheap. Cause the producers and executives who peddle the rap/hip hop to lose their God-money. Things will then change. Everybody feels it's okay to dump on the black woman. After all, who really speaks for her? It used to be that she could rely on her strong black man to at least speak up for her, at least in public. Now he is the one referring to her as B-- and H-. Is it no wonder others feel comfortable doing the same.

Anon,

From a financial perspective, on a per-"Ho" basis, Don Imus's one "Ho" must be platinum while Ludacris' must be, I don't know, how about mud? After all, Imus's "Ho" cost him $8,000,000 per year. Ludacris' huge number of "Ho"s cost him almost nothing.

Money does indeed talk. It says that the word "Ho" doesn't mean anything to the perpetually outraged racial activist until the right person says it.

Another anon

Top lawyer being Imused. That was fast.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04142007/news/regionalnews/roasting_raoul_regionalnews_fredric_u__dicker.htm

Excellent post--certainly, I was unaware of Rev. Sharpton's position on this issue.

I also wanted to say that it's good to have you back on the blog, Professor Hutchinson. You've been rather prolific these past few days. Does this signal the end of your emereti status?

In any event, keep up the great work.

Please point out where Al Sharpton has called for:

the firing or rescinding of a contract for a recording artist or recording executive;

a boycott of a record label, store that carries certain rap music, or radio station that plays certain rap music;

Sharpton served on Pepsi's advisory board during the Ludacris/O'reilly controversy.

Called for a boycott of a television network (BET or MTV or whatever) because of racially charged language.

He may be condemining the actions of rappers, but he is not taking the same affirmative steps to economically harm rappers like he wanted to punish Imus.

I think using Sharpton is a bad example though, because
he does not speak for the whole black community. the black community must get together and come up with a rule, that applies to both blacks and whites for what can and cannot be said. Until the black community articulates what is acceptable for everyone, they are subject to criticism. Because they mobilzed to attack Imus, but they have not mobilized to attack Ludacris, 50 cent, or any others.

Russell Simmons, a black leader. boycotted Pepsi to support Ludacris, author of the hit song, "Ho." Explain to me how that is consistent with his condemnation of Imus for the exact same word.

I see some subtle anonymous racists posting irrelevancy in their attempt to argue a point as if it will have an impression:

Isn't the point about Sharpton also that he has a long history of fairly bigoted anti-white and blatantly anti-semitic comments that the media never mentions and he has never been held to account on? - DW

Notice no proof, just putting negative information out there to attempt to raise suspicion or doubt on Sharpton character.

Don Imus gets fired for using the word ho and Al Sharpton gets to run for president after Tawana Brawley. Nope, no double standard at all. - Anonymous

Again, this subtle bigot want you to believe Sharpton and Brawley were in collusion together to commit fraud and deceit.

Now in their highly flawed comparision to Imus with rappers they say:

Russell Simmons, a black leader. boycotted Pepsi to support Ludacris, author of the hit song, "Ho." Explain to me how that is consistent with his condemnation of Imus for the exact same word. - RMCACE

This is an easy answer. No rapper ever had a morning show and called ladies playing a championship game a bunch of nappy-headed hos. Last I checked, Ludacris albums are properly labeled that it contains explicit lyrics.

But the bigots don't realize this - Blacks want them to attack these hip-hop artists because Blacks know these are white-owned record labels and white-owned radio stations that heavily rotate negative Black music upon our community. Keep up the comparision of Imus to rappers, White people because we appreciate you fighting our battle against this form of racism.

I think Joan summed up exactly what I think of these subtle bigots with her comment:

To the many white homosexual men who suddenly say a double standard was perpetuated when Imus was fired...

This whole angle by these so called "Black intellectuals" is an attempt by Blacks to split hairs and avoid responsibility and accountability for the vile language and negative images in Rap culture. They want two different standards...one for Whites and one for Blacks. They have become apologists for the Rap industry, bailing rappers out everytime someone points out the truth. It's an attempt to sanitize the role of rappers & blunt criticism, so that they can have business as usual in the so-called "Black community" after the Imus controversy subsides.

But i'm personally tired of these hair-splitting negroes making excuses for the degenerate Rap Community. I have had all that I can take. This one put me over the edge.

Black folks (especially the youth) will never advance as a people, as long as Rap culture continues to play a dominant role in Black America. Rap culture will help to keep them mentally shackled, preventing them from progressing as they should.

Why are Blacks lagging behind Whites, Asians, & other groups in just about every major social/economic, and educational category? I'm tired of hearing that bull.... about the White man....that it is all his fault. Bull...!!!

No, Rap is not the only cause or the number one cause for these conditions...but it is a major contributor to certain behaviors that- when combined with other factors- leads to the conditions that we see today. Rap is like a catalyst for many of these negative social/economic situations.

When will "Black intellectuals" stop the hair-splitting bull....? It is making Black folks look like hypocrites in front of the entire world.
No wonder Blacks get no respect.

"This has been the primary argument advanced by defenders of Imus"

This is another lie.

I am not one of the defenders of Imus...and many other black bloggers are not defending him. Yet we still think that there needs to be a focus on the Rap culture.

I with my friend on EbonyFriends.com discussed your article . First, I want to say you did a good job. your view is nice.

CRITCISM? Is that all you're expecting from Sharpton? He lobbied for Imus' firing. He called for boycotting of companies associated with Imus' show. Where is the call for action against Snoop and 50 Cent?

• "I can't stand no sneaker-wearing nappy head bit_h (word)" - 2Pac: Song lyrics from "Fu__ Friends"
• "Violent J won't be ganked by no nappy-headed, bare-footed, crackheaded sewer skank" - Insane Clown Posse: Song lyrics from "Ghetto Zone Lyrics."
• "Cuz she's got a gang o' kidz nappy-heads and all dirty and she's gettin pimped by a n___ that's thirty." - N.W.A: Lyrics from "Just Don't Bite It."

It's ok for blacks to say this because...why?

Hypocrisy does not help the Dream.

From:
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/04/12/154618.php

None of that excuses what Imus said during his show; instead, it underscores some problems in our culture. First, we have a growing number of artists who demean women. Secondly, this demeaning language is tolerated. Finally, tolerance for such language is highly inconsistent.

This inconsistency was perfectly illustrated by rapper Snoop Dogg during an interview with MTV where he stated that "Rappers are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing sh--, that's trying to get a n---a for his money."

It sounds as if, here, Snoop Dogg is saying it's okay to demean any woman who has not "made it to the next level," but then he goes on to make his most revealing statement by saying, "we ain't no old-ass white men that sit up on MSNBC going hard on black girls... I will not let them mutha-----as say we in the same league as him." In other words, if you're old and white, it's wrong; but if you're black — and young, I suppose — it's okay.

Unfortunately, the reality of this thinking is borne out by the overall reaction to Imus’ idiotic statement. Imus' career is faltering over what he said while rap artists rake in millions of dollars for saying that and much worse. Coming from Imus' mouth, it is "hate speech." Coming from Snoop Dogg, or 2Pac, or a hundred other artist's mouths, these are "..songs coming from our minds and our souls that are relevant to what we feel," as Snoop Dogg so eloquently stated during his interview.

The rap artist are the best thing that the black community has. Rappers are not creating these negative images, they are stating them. Drugs, ho’s, and anything that they say. Rappers calling women ho’s in music is the best way to deter this behavior. Women behaving badly started long before rap did. If girls don’t like the language in hip hop, they should not partake in those activities. A ho is a woman is a woman. I also believe that rappers do a good job adding in songs about girls they really like a dedication to their mothers and other positive things. And lets not be mistaken, THE RUGTERS TEAM DOES LISTEN TO RAP.

For his next high profile target, I suggest that the Right Reverend Al and his comrades go after Jimmy Lovine. Then they can work their way right up the corporate ladder of Vivendi Universal SA to Jean-Bernard Levy.

Meanwhile, who is willing to reach out to the young Afrikan Americans who are most impacted by the self-destructive messages and images in this gangster art form. While this controversy has been brewing, I’ll bet anything that the young folks most negatively impacted by this art form have not missed a minute getting crunk to these self-destructive lyrics and beats.

So if our Black intellectuals, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and whomever decide to carry on this battle for our humanity at the corporate/political level, someone has go into the schools, the streets, the hood, or wherever our people are and talk to and listen to our young people. Needless to say, this task will require a tremendous level of sincerity, and fearlessness. And, that’s just to get their attention. Developing and implementing solutions to the numerous issues they are dealing with is a whole different and extremely difficult level to achieve.

By the way, has anyone mentioned the passing of Calvin Lockhart.

Makheru

German Army recruits getting Imused. Sharpton comments.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04152007/news/regionalnews/german_armys_hate_blitzkrieg_regionalnews_hasani_gittens.htm

I hear in the ethers whites complaining about a "double standard"-- which to me is code for "let's ignore any and all social or historical context about any issue"

I would think the true double standard would be black rappers specifically singling out WHITE women and calling them ho's, bitches, etc. Hell, I don't listen to hip/hop so maybe they do, but
if so nobody's brought it up.

As Tyrell so misogynistically put it, it's about keeping Black woman in their "place". Plain and simple.

So my challenge is to understand why we are so willing to accept hate speech when coming from our own? There are certainly more eloquent and creative and less violent ways to express a messages... so it's not a question of restricting the message per se.

But I wonder what incentive folks would have if there's no cash cow behind the message. That should be the litmus test. How many rappers and music CEOs would continue to produce this crap, if they could not profit from it.

If it really is a matter of artistry and an important message (ala Snoop), there should be no shortage of people willing to spew the hate for free (or close to free). Look at LINUX, podcasts, shareware, freeware, blogs...for the most part these are venues and technologies that are not under the corporate umbrella and have seemed to do just fine. Would 50 cent and Snoop's messages stand that test?

I guess I should add that I am playing a bit of devil's advocate in that last posting-- trying to balance free speech with the idea that there are better ways to get across an idea about problems in our community without resorting to violence of words...even though I still may not approve of the underlying misogyny of the music

http://www.prometheus6.org/node/16229

Aunt B at Tiny Cat Pants is brilliant. Not only does When All Else Fails, Blame Black People hit many nails squarely and sequentially on the head, she does in the comments what we've needed white folks to do for a loooooong time: understand, and explain it to other white folks.

rmcace, what should the "white community" do? do you guys have a "rule" about how to treat racist language? why did the need for a consistent rule only appear when a white guy got criticized? i have not seen any white person protect rappers (except maybe their corporate sponsors) from attacks about their lyrics, but i see a lot of effort around imus. doesnt sound like "you guys" have a consistent approach either.

this angry independent guy sounds angry but not independent. he espouses so many stereotypes about blacks, asians, "black intellectuals," to suggest a sponge-like mind. if you stop treating asians like a homogenous blob, you would notice that vast segments of the population of asian-americans suffer poverty at much higher rates than african americans. but people focus on japanese, chinese and korean immigrants, whose immigration patterns tended/tend to involve more educated classes. immigration among educated blacks creates the same patterns.

and if you did not stereotype black intellectuals you would see the range of opinion. maybe you are too angry to be objective.

and it really does not sound like you have studied poverty or society too much. black people have been subordinate in this nation since the first one was enslaved, jim crowed, lynched, and effectively segregated - up until the 1970s schools were still segregated. this was long before hip hop emerged. so do your research. you believe that 30 years is enough time to overcome 200 years of violence and discrimination. no historian would agree with you.

by the way, latinos have high poverty rates and suffer from many of the same problems as black. latinAS have among the highest poverty rates of any segment of us population. is this because of hip hop. or maybe salsa?

Nat King Cole:

That certain night, the night we met,
There was magic abroad in the air.
There were angels dining at the Ritz,
And a nightingale sang in Berkeley Square.

I may be right, I may be wrong,
But I'm perfectly willing to swear
That when you turned and smiled at me,
A nightingale sang in Berkeley Square.

Ludacris:

She said she had a nigga who was only there for rent
And wouldn't shake her booty for a red cent
She said she never fucked 3 niggas at a time
Til Lil Fate started fuckin with her mind
She said she couldn't see how women turn tricks
And couldn't picture tryna suck a nigga dick

Both songs chosen at random. You've got more problems than Don Imus. You can't blame race, either. Racism was worse when Nat King Cole was recording.

Darren, why don't you post a couple of links to what Barack Obama had to say about Don Imus? And then post links to Barack's meeting with Ludacris. And then post a link to Ludacris' lyrics. That should work.

There is a difference between condemning misogynistic and racially degrading lyrics when asked in an interview, or calling for its end in a speech, and actually calling for an all and out boycott.

The truth is that our "civil rights leaders" have been short on true leadership. They're front and center for these fleeting controversies, exploiting our misery to advance their careers. But as soon as Imus has completed his apology tour, where will Sharpton be?

Calling for Imus' boycott and subsequent firing was the right thing to do, and I'm happy it was successful. But we need help in addressing why we as a people talk to eachother this way, setting an example for the rest of the country to abuse us when they feel so moved. We need genuine, committed and long-term leadership to help us overcome the social, economic, cultural and political obstacles we continue to face within and outside of our own communities. And a few press conferences just doesn't cut it.

After Imus' apology circuit is completed, Sharpton should call for a boycott of the lyrics and videos that repeatedly degrade and abuse Black Americans the way Imus' comments did. He should hold a press conferences to name the corporations that profit off of this abuse. And he can start with a boycott of BET and its corporate sponsors.

The Reverend Al Sharpton
http://www.larryelder.com/ascrimes.html

midwest, you should go deeper. sharpton went to the fcc and demanded a ban on this type of stuff. i disagree with him because i hate the notion of the government tightening freedom of speech. but he made those demands. the government refused. he met with labels demanding the same. he staged a march protesting hip hop very publicly at a hip hop summit where all the biggest label execs and artists attended.

the reality is, no one cares about black men slurring black women except for black feminists, sharpton, and very religious types (who think hip hop is youthful hedonism). sharpton's critiques of hip hop as a black person get no attention because of these reasons. no sponsor is going to pull out of hip hop for this reason; it is too lucrative. msnbc/cbs pulled out of imus, not so much because of sharpton, but because his top advertisers left. he was no longer profitable. you guys have convinced yourselves that the companies acted on morality. it was just an economic decision. if white society cared about black men calling black women ho's (rather than a white guy beating up potential national champions) then you'd get different results. but not enough people care.

white women's political and athletic groups also criticized imus very publicly. of course, all the focus is on sharpton. i do not understand this part.

sharpton called for a boycott of hip hop, midwest. but like the plan to boycott msnbc, it did not go anywhere. have any boycotts been successful recently? i can't remember any. well, southern conservatives boycotted the dixie chix after they have the audacity to criticize bush on the war-which now the slow people have realized is a waste of human life and $$$$.

Truth,

You've got the black feminists and the black leaders and the black civil rights groups coming out your ears and still the culture is filled with this trash. This isn't going to stop until we, blacks, whites, asians and everyone, stop rewarding the Ludacrises and start rewarding the Nat King Coles in our lives.

We did it to ourselves. Nat King Cole didn't morph into Ludacris overnight.

It would be a trivial exercise to find a white thrash metal band to compare to Bing Crosby. Race is irrelevant. Culture isn't.

well, anonymous, hip hop started as some little innocent "rapping" in the early 80s/late 70s. it took over the music industry, and now most of the consumers of hip hop are white. i live in an upper new england suburb and let me tell you - that's all the white kids listen too. i think images are important. i also think that we have to look beyond that. the simpsons, dumb and dumber, dude, where's my car, punked, and other stupid "white" shows receive little criticism, and no one connects them to white "depravity." it is interesting that with blacks, tv is powerful, but with whites, it is a joke -- even when the joke is on black people.

Am I missing something? All of these questions about "why not criticize hip hop?" First of all, I agree that blacks have criticized hip hop all over the place. So much so that Michael Eric Dyson felt compared to write a book defending hip hop from attacks by blacks. So let's dispose of this madness that blacks do not criticize hip hop.

Second, you people are not thinking about reality. Have you ever heard the saying "I can mess with you because I love you?" How many of you will let your brother or sister tease or talk noise to you....or let mom control and manipulate you, or let dad be stern, or your husband/wife/partner nag you to death, but would never let someone "outside of the family" do these things? Well, so many of you have been portraying blacks as this tight nit community, to the degree that you can conflate Obama and Sharpton! If this is the case, it doesnt take much brain matter to figure out that blacks do not feel as threatened by "their family" using racial slurs as when whites do. In the same way that gays call each other the f-word, but will blow a fuse when Coulter uses it. Or women call each other bitches but dont want to hear men do it.

The fact that white people have so much to say about slurs all of a sudden is odd to me. There are not too many slurs against white people, and they certainly are not threatening; the bad is overshadowed by the dominance of positive white images in the media. There are very few positive images of persons of color in the media, and you cannot blame the entire population of poc's for that. Would you blame the entire white community for Imus' behavior? No. So why blame blacks for hip hop, especially when whites by more hip hop than blacks and the record labels are predominately white-owned? Talk about a double-standard.

Anaon - You are actually stupid enough to use a two bit race pimp like Larry Elder's composition in an argument that Sharpton is a race pimp?

On an intellectual black blog?

(Guffaws!)

One of the team sports here is watching the white conservative racists try and pass for black and make complete asses of themselves.

Truth,

I agree.

One of the team sports here is watching the white conservative racists try and pass for black and make complete asses of themselves.

Sayer....

You are babbling,....

What specifically are you challenging in my statement? I'll be happy to debate the matter.

How did you turn my comments around and make it an issue about Asians? LOL

What I stated was...."Why are Blacks lagging behind Whites, Asians, & other groups in just about every major social/economic, and educational category?" This is true!

Is your argument that Black folks are not lagging behind other groups (including Asians) in most of the key social/economic indicators?
If this is your argument... state it...and post your evidence.

As for Black intellectuals... yes I know there is a wide range of opinion. But there are several "Black intellectuals" such as the above author, and others like Michael Eric Dyson, Todd Boyd and others who try to make excuses for Rappers who are involved in the perpetuation of vile language and images regarding women. These have been the talking heads who have been in front of the TV cameras over the past week....although I know that the range of intellectual thought is much more comprehensive.

And your comments regarding Jim Crow and what happened during slavery...etc etc etc... I have heard this argument used repeatedly over the last several days. It's another round-about way of sanitizing and defending Hip Hop. It's another way of saying... blame the "white man".

And once again you tried to deflect attention from the issue.... by bringing up Latinos. Of course they have poverty. What I basically stated was Rap contributes to these problems...it exacerbates them. I didn't mention that it was the lone cause or even the primary cause for the ills in Black America.

Sure Sharpton has criticized Rap Music. But those are far and few between. These is no way, Sharpton has giving the moment of time to Rap has he did with the Don Imus situation. C.Delores Tucker criticized rap music. She brought it all the way to the senate. She organized marches anytime she should.

The only time you see Sharpton in a march against rap music, is when something happens. A rapper dies, rapper gets arrested, or in the latest situation, a rapper slaps a kid. If something bad or news worthy doesn't happen in rap then you won't hear from Sharpton. I'm sure if you ask him a question about it, he'll tell you that the music should change. But if nothing happens or no one ask him, they he won't say anything about it.

So I have to disagree with you, Sharpton doesn't spend as much time on rap music as he did Don Imus.

supremacy claus, that new york lawyer is not a "top lawyer." but anyway, that is the committee that handles things pertaining to judicial misconduct, indlucing bias claims on the basis of race, gender, national origin and sexual orientation. so it is a bit ironic that someone with those duties would express bigotry. this is a stronger case than imus. imus was paid to be a shock jock. this guy is paid to enforce antidiscrimination norms. if you cannot see the difference, you need corrective lenses.

dame, you do not read the news much. sharpton took a proposal to the fcc to shut down hip hop until they vowed to clean it up. that's better than going to the senate because the fcc has direct regulatory authority over the radio airwaves.

One of the team sports here is watching the white conservative racists try and pass for black and make complete asses of themselves.

Yep, Aaron was really trying to pass here on the comment boards but it appears he is pissed at Blacks about losing his Imus and he is letting it all out. LOL!

Again, last I checked, rappers albums are clearly marked with explicit lyrics and cannot be sold to children under 18. Imus was on public FCC-regulated airwaves and taking major corporation advertising money to spew his hatred of Blacks.

Big difference.

WHITES ARE USING NEGROES TO BRING DOWN HIP HOP SO THAT THEY CAN TAKE IT OVER LIKE THEY DID ROCKNROLL. I SAY TO MY YOUNG BROS DON'T LET THEM DO IT. HIP HOP IS YALL'S DEFEND IT.

You are the one who invoked the Asian model minority image (noticeably leaving out Latinos from your list). Anyway, if you would read more literature in Asian studies you would see that your arguments have been debunked on many grounds.

If you stop treating "Asians" as an indistinguishable, homogeneous mass, then you get some interesting stats: several groups within the population of Asians have poverty and educational rates lower than or equal to blacks and latinos; you can similarly breakdown Latino statistics. Also, Asian Americans tend to be concentrated in coastal cities that have higher per capita income than the entire remainder of the nation (the same is true of blacks in these cities); this further skews the Asian economic data.

Furthermore, I did not blame whites for anything. All I said was blacks have been subordinate (from the factors listed) long before hip hop was invented. If you consider that "babbling" perhaps its because you cannot see beyond your own stereotypes. You sing a familiar and elementary chorus: any critique of social structure is blaming whites; any reference to history hates whites...yadda yadda. I am hopeful you can do better than this simplistic argument.

On Asians and poverty, see:http://www.aasc.ucla.edu/policy/aapioverview.htm

The webpage (like many others) states that: "Though they are the fastest growing minority population, there is a lack of of policy attention to the [Asian American Pacific Islander]population because they are viewed as a successful minority. For instance, AAPIs make up a disproportionate large share of those with advanced degrees in engineering and the sciences, and stimulate economic growth through entrepreneurship. However, aggregate numbers hide underlying problems, such as how their per capita income is more than 10% lower than for non-Hispanic whites. Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders are 40% lower than for non-Hispanic whites. In 1999, the median family income of AAPIs also varied by Asian ethnic group. While Asians overall had a median family income of $60,794, Cambodian, Hmong and Laotian median family income was below $30,000. In addition, while Asians overall have a poverty rate of less than 13%, some groups, such as the Cambodian, Hmong, and Laotian have poverty rates significantly higher at 40%, 53% and 32%, respectively.

Hi, how come you aren't posting my comments?

One of the biggest strategies used by conservatives is to repeat ignorant and illogical talking points.

By doing this, they attempt to take the offensive and control of the argument or subject at hand.

In this case, they want to make it about Al Sharpton and some rappers instead of us addressing the systematic racism that goes on in mainstream media.

Do not go astray arguing with them because they want you to waste energy doing so.

Truth: Perhaps, not a top lawyer, but on TV.

The consensus of the fellow members of that committee agrees with you, and they have the most facts.

My point is that Imussing will spread everywhere as a gotcha tool of winning a dispute.

I have discussed the problems of gotcha, as a factor in 9/11. Clinton spends dozens of hours on his gotcha, trivial legal problems instead of on Al Qaeda.

Gotcha can be used by anyone, and is a non-partisan tool of mutual destruction. Black folks are freest with their language, and are next. Gotcha is unjust, as well.

Hi, how come you aren't posting my comments?

If you embed more than one link or do any fancy html formatting, then blackprof's spam filter will stop your comment, and the prof's DO NOT check their Movable Type cue to retrieve comments blocked as spam.

Matter of fact, there's one spambot that posts consistently on multiple threads and gets through the spam filter like hot prunes get through the elderly, (daniel pennant at ebonyfriends.com) however, human commenters who type more than plain text get consistently blocked.

For instance, AAPIs make up a disproportionate large share of those with advanced degrees in engineering and the sciences, and stimulate economic growth through entrepreneurship

And when Asian-Americans surpass all other groups in economic terms, what will you fall back on then? Asian supremacists?

their per capita income is more than 10% lower than for non-Hispanic whites

10% is nothing. They'll cover that ground in a few years given the degrees their getting.

"[A]ny opposition to internal criticism based on the acceptance of repressive anti-feminist, wWhite supremacist, and heteronormative discourses is squarely inconsistent with (what should be) the goals of progressive politics-- liberation and equality."

Well said.

e

From these tables:

http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032006/perinc/new04_000.htm

it looks to me like Asian males with Masters degrees are outearning all others with Masters degrees when compared age group-to-age group.

For instance, a White, non-Hispanic male with a Masters degree, aged 25-34 years is earning, on average, $57,432 while the Asian male with a masters in the same age group is averaging $62,519.

Maybe what you need to claim is institutional racism by Asian males with Masters degrees.

Or maybe engineering and science degrees pay off.

Truth,

The reason I would let just the black community decide the rules for racist comments is because, generally whites don't care what the rules are, as long as they are clear and apply to everyone. So the black community should be able to pick and choose what they want to be able to say. Then just let everyone else know these are the standards and that they apply to everyone.

And Russell Simmons hypocrisy cannot be so easily dismissed. Imus was not fired because he violated an FCC standard or because the term was not allowed on the airwaves. "Ho" has gone out over the airwaves thousands of times. No explicit content warning precedes it. Imus would have still been fired if he said these things at a press conference that was not being broadcast. The bottom line is Russell Simmons called for Imus's firing, yet called for a boycott of Pepsi to support Ludacris and his song "Ho." Those positions cannot be distinguished by the fact that Imus's words went on air, because every DJ who played Ludacris and a bunch of other rappers would be fired on the spot. Imus, and any other DJ would be fired for playing Prussian Blue.

BTW, if you watch rap videos, you will see the term Ho applies to white women as well. When rappers are singing about Hos, there are scantily clad white women gyrating around them.

Looks like Sharpton is pretty busy these days:

From the BBC: German army in 'racist video' row
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6556643.stm