Thank you--thank you!!! Sharpton, the women of Spelman College, other Hip Hop artists (Queen Latifah, Jill Scott, etc.) have also criticized rap music that degrades women--but they cannot get the samke kind of press that this Imus situation garnered. Also, Black folks have been calling for an end to this non-artistic filth--and that's the problem. Just like drugs, there's no problem until someone in the white community is touched. Had this situation happened to a non-white, we probably would have never heard it!

In truth, the real reason some white people have a problem with what they believe is a double standard has all to do with "white privilege" and elitism. How dare Black folks tell white folks they cannot say something?! I have Spanish-speaking students that have their own forms of "code words" that cannot be articulated by other ethnic groups--but you don't hear these angry white folks talking about those words because they don't speak the language. Imus had to pay a form of reparations and some white folks don't like it! There would be no problem if all Imus would have done was talk about his "profound regret" just like the growing number of slave-owning states have done. It's when White Supremacists have to actually pay that there are problems.

Isn't the point about Sharpton also that he has a long history of fairly bigoted anti-white and blatantly anti-semitic comments that the media never mentions and he has never been held to account on? His actions in the crown heights and the Freddy's Mart incidents are great examples. In short, the beef on Sharpton is how a person who rose to fame as a race baitor became the standard for determining what passes for racist commentary in America. (I'm putting aside the libel/slander judgment against him that he has blatantly ignored claiming not to have any assets while he spends money in NYC like it is going out of fashion)

None of that is and excuse for Imus or his enablers.

DW:
That is a different strand of analysis, which has attached to some of the arguments in this case. But specifically for the Imus situation, commentators have tried to point out a contradiction in Sharpton's approaches to Imus and Hip Hop. Apparently, the knowledgeable and thoughtful Merideth Veira challenged Sharpton on this point. Perhaps she should have done her homework.

Nice straw man, Darren. Doesn't resemble anything in reality, but a nice one nonetheless.

The last white talk show host to refer to black women as hos was Don Imus. He got fired. The last black hip hop artist to refer to them as hos was...who knows? The list is practically endless. Pick your artist and they just got airplay somewhere n the US. Imus got fired and the hip hop artists get airplay...from Black radio stations.

Nope, no double standard there. Move along, nothing to see, nothing to see...

I can't stand Imus and am glad he got the ax. I'd love to see him followed quickly by Howard Stern. If Al Sharpton can get the job done, then he's infintesimally improved his standing after his hideous behavior in the Tawana Brawley case.

Don Imus gets fired for using the word ho and Al Sharpton gets to run for president after Tawana Brawley. Nope, no double standard at all.

This is a case of institutional racism if ever there was one. The white is expected to behave. The black is not. I'd be jumping up and down about that if I were you.

They aren't going far enough. It's not enough to be naming rappers...

I want you to name THEIR BOSSES. They are equally, if not more culpable than the rappers.

Darren,
I don't see the point of debating the comments of known idiots. The point Veira makes is a weak one. The problem with Al Sharpton is that he has been promoted by the media and many (though not all) in the black media is a spokesperson on race. The fact is that the man has a record as a bigot and yet he gets a complete pass and is taken seriously. Why does he get a pass? Why not discuss this topic on blackprof instead of having more than 10 posts (at last count) on a broadcaster who was in fact fired?

DW, why ask that question? This is blackprof.com, the home of the religion of victimhood. That's why they call for Imus to be fired. I hear that Sharpton even has his own radio show. Should he be fired for his behavior?

Err...that's a difficult question...many nuances...a lot of history of being given insufficient opportunities to...err...um...let's discuss lynching, shall we?

Darren, since you're so into links, try this one.

http://www.kansascity.com/182/story/66339.html

Why have their been no call for a boycott of BET, MTV (Viacom) or the music companies and their parent companies???

Condeming lyrics is not going to do it, that is basically telling rappers to police themselves. You have to go for those who control the capital.

Apparently the truth touches a nerve. Hip Hop is played primarily on white stations. There aren't too many black owned radio stations in the country. Even black stations are white-owned. So, if you want to criticize this, go after white stations. Isn't that what Sharpton did with Imus and with Hip Hop (him going after the labels)? They only fired Imus because he cost money. No one cares if black men say bad things about black women. Just another n---- slamming another n-----.

Thanks for the link "anonymous." Apparently, you did not read them. I questioned focusing on Imus as well. Thanks for the reply though.

DW - most of my comments on "Imus" have not been about Imus at all, but about the public discourse surrounding him. Imus, the "person" is irrelevant to me or the issues I am discussing. He's just a springboard. I have had very little to say about the actual content of his "joke."

Prof. Hutchinson: Thank you for this incisive correction. ~Joan

Postcript--about perceived double-standards:

(1) I'm actually going to do my homework and see what Rev. Sharpton actually did say about Jewish Americans when he spoke out about the racism in Crown Heights against blacks. (The blackprof.com reader may be mixing him up with Rev. Jesse Jackson.) Perhaps the distortion of Rev. Sharpton's record in regards to Imus and Hip hop is taking place in other areas too. Furthermore, the Rev. is often cited for his mistake in supporting T. Brawley but the legions of lawyers and pundits who made similar mistakes of supporting white women who made and make false claims of rape against black men (for over 200 hundred years in fact; look at the history of lynching) rarely if ever get attacked for their misdeeds of support. How 'bout that for a double standard!

(2) To the many white homosexual men who suddenly say a double standard was perpetuated when Imus was fired: how often do you participate in combating racism against blacks? How often do you stand up and join protests of racism against blacks who are beaten to death or dragged in cars? Where were you when black homosexual men were killed and assaulted in alarming numbers last year? Did you write editorials about that? Are you sensitive to the fact that only a certain kind of white man appears in the homosexual media on the newsstands at Barnes and Noble (which, admittedly, is my main experience with that media)? Would you protest against nasty comments by homosexuals like Perez Hilton on his vicious blog? Why do you not see that you are yourself being extremely selective when you choose one remedy over another and one anti-bias act over others. We are all selective.

The last time I said something about homosexuals on blackprof.com many "trolls" said that I was a lesbian. No, I am not a lesbian. As a black heterosexual female Unitarian I support full homosexual rights (including the right to marry and adopt) and I am concerned with the complexities of all of these perceived double standards. Most of the African American homosexuals that I met (and I mean literally hundreds) where at the Baptists churches that I used to be members of...these men (and a few women) were in so many ways often the backbones of their communities.

Question: Why are the defenders of Imus/critics of Sharpton in the dark on his history as a hip hop critic? Are they only concerned when he criticizes whites, rather than blacks? What do you think?

Because there are plenty of people whose only knowledge of him is what they read in the conservative opinion 'zines. Just like there are plenty of people who don't know anything about black people in general, apart from what they see through their car window or on the news.

Nope, no double standard there.

"Everybody does it" is a teenager's defense. (Not implying that you would want to imitate Imus, though)

The fact is that the man has a record as a bigot and yet he gets a complete pass and is taken seriously. Why does he get a pass?

Because good heroes are hard to find, as the saying goes. And in the absence of same, nature abhors a vacuum, as that other saying goes. There will always be a constituency for a leader who tells his flock that their lives are somebody else's fault.

Darren,

How far could, say, ESPN's Chris Berman get into this before he was fired?

Cant turn a ho into a housewife
Hos dont act right
Theres hos on a mission, an hoes on a crackpipe
Hey ho how ya doin, where ya been?
Prolly doin ho stuff cuz there you ho again
Its a ho wide world, that we livin in
feline, feminine, fantastical, women
Not all, just some
You ho who you are
Theres hoes in tha room, theres hoes in tha car
theres hoes on stage, theres hoes by tha bar
hos by near, an hos by far
Ho! (But can i getta ride?!)
NO! (Cmon, nigga why?!)

Ludacris did it, got a nice record contract and a private meeting with Barack Obama.

The same Barack Obama who called for Don Imus to be fired.

Nope, no double standard at all.

Sharpton is biased. What is his opinion of this story? For that matter, what is the opinion on Blackprof about this story? No, not the crime, but the suppression of this story by the biased, mainstream media.

http://media.www.diamondbackonline.com/media/storage/paper873/news/2007/04/04/Opinion/Not-A.Black.And.White.Issue-2820754.shtml

It should be said that most white people, Imus included, probably would not even know this offensive n-bomb slang, if not for rap & hip-hop.

Commenting on the rappers bad behavior is not the same as taking action. Every time they move, they should be boycotted, picketed, tarred and feathered. The record labels and executives should be put under fire the same way Imus was. I'm just fedup with so-called black leaders like Al and Jesse giving lip service. In the long run, the firing of Imus will do NOTHING to help the black community. But bringing those rappers who are peddling their vile lyrics about black women right in the community to the same level of destruction will send a message - no one will disparage black women or they will be taken down, this includes black males. Let enough of them lose recording contracts and see the lyrics change real fast. But Imus, his demise means nothing. Doesn't everybody know that it hurts even more when you are destroyed from within. Who would not expect a white man to say something like Imus did? This is still America. But our brothers? They should want to treat black women better. I'm just fed up with it all. Black people need some serious help - Jesus!

In this country, money is God. Imus was fired because sponsors were pulling out. This meant a loss of profit for MSNBC and CBS. Therefore, they acted. Talk is cheap. Cause the producers and executives who peddle the rap/hip hop to lose their God-money. Things will then change. Everybody feels it's okay to dump on the black woman. After all, who really speaks for her? It used to be that she could rely on her strong black man to at least speak up for her, at least in public. Now he is the one referring to her as B-- and H-. Is it no wonder others feel comfortable doing the same.

Anon,

From a financial perspective, on a per-"Ho" basis, Don Imus's one "Ho" must be platinum while Ludacris' must be, I don't know, how about mud? After all, Imus's "Ho" cost him $8,000,000 per year. Ludacris' huge number of "Ho"s cost him almost nothing.

Money does indeed talk. It says that the word "Ho" doesn't mean anything to the perpetually outraged racial activist until the right person says it.

Another anon

Top lawyer being Imused. That was fast.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04142007/news/regionalnews/roasting_raoul_regionalnews_fredric_u__dicker.htm

Excellent post--certainly, I was unaware of Rev. Sharpton's position on this issue.

I also wanted to say that it's good to have you back on the blog, Professor Hutchinson. You've been rather prolific these past few days. Does this signal the end of your emereti status?

In any event, keep up the great work.

Please point out where Al Sharpton has called for:

the firing or rescinding of a contract for a recording artist or recording executive;

a boycott of a record label, store that carries certain rap music, or radio station that plays certain rap music;

Sharpton served on Pepsi's advisory board during the Ludacris/O'reilly controversy.

Called for a boycott of a television network (BET or MTV or whatever) because of racially charged language.

He may be condemining the actions of rappers, but he is not taking the same affirmative steps to economically harm rappers like he wanted to punish Imus.

I think using Sharpton is a bad example though, because
he does not speak for the whole black community. the black community must get together and come up with a rule, that applies to both blacks and whites for what can and cannot be said. Until the black community articulates what is acceptable for everyone, they are subject to criticism. Because they mobilzed to attack Imus, but they have not mobilized to attack Ludacris, 50 cent, or any others.

Russell Simmons, a black leader. boycotted Pepsi to support Ludacris, author of the hit song, "Ho." Explain to me how that is consistent with his condemnation of Imus for the exact same word.

I see some subtle anonymous racists posting irrelevancy in their attempt to argue a point as if it will have an impression:

Isn't the point about Sharpton also that he has a long history of fairly bigoted anti-white and blatantly anti-semitic comments that the media never mentions and he has never been held to account on? - DW

Notice no proof, just putting negative information out there to attempt to raise suspicion or doubt on Sharpton character.

Don Imus gets fired for using the word ho and Al Sharpton gets to run for president after Tawana Brawley. Nope, no double standard at all. - Anonymous

Again, this subtle bigot want you to believe Sharpton and Brawley were in collusion together to commit fraud and deceit.

Now in their highly flawed comparision to Imus with rappers they say:

Russell Simmons, a black leader. boycotted Pepsi to support Ludacris, author of the hit song, "Ho." Explain to me how that is consistent with his condemnation of Imus for the exact same word. - RMCACE

This is an easy answer. No rapper ever had a morning show and called ladies playing a championship game a bunch of nappy-headed hos. Last I checked, Ludacris albums are properly labeled that it contains explicit lyrics.

But the bigots don't realize this - Blacks want them to attack these hip-hop artists because Blacks know these are white-owned record labels and white-owned radio stations that heavily rotate negative Black music upon our community. Keep up the comparision of Imus to rappers, White people because we appreciate you fighting our battle against this form of racism.

I think Joan summed up exactly what I think of these subtle bigots with her comment:

To the many white homosexual men who suddenly say a double standard was perpetuated when Imus was fired...

This whole angle by these so called "Black intellectuals" is an attempt by Blacks to split hairs and avoid responsibility and accountability for the vile language and negative images in Rap culture. They want two different standards...one for Whites and one for Blacks. They have become apologists for the Rap industry, bailing rappers out everytime someone points out the truth. It's an attempt to sanitize the role of rappers & blunt criticism, so that they can have business as usual in the so-called "Black community" after the Imus controversy subsides.

But i'm personally tired of these hair-splitting negroes making excuses for the degenerate Rap Community. I have had all that I can take. This one put me over the edge.

Black folks (especially the youth) will never advance as a people, as long as Rap culture continues to play a dominant role in Black America. Rap culture will help to keep them mentally shackled, preventing them from progressing as they should.

Why are Blacks lagging behind Whites, Asians, & other groups in just about every major social/economic, and educational category? I'm tired of hearing that bull.... about the White man....that it is all his fault. Bull...!!!

No, Rap is not the only cause or the number one cause for these conditions...but it is a major contributor to certain behaviors that- when combined with other factors- leads to the conditions that we see today. Rap is like a catalyst for many of these negative social/economic situations.

When will "Black intellectuals" stop the hair-splitting bull....? It is making Black folks look like hypocrites in front of the entire world.
No wonder Blacks get no respect.

"This has been the primary argument advanced by defenders of Imus"

This is another lie.

I am not one of the defenders of Imus...and many other black bloggers are not defending him. Yet we still think that there needs to be a focus on the Rap culture.

I with my friend on EbonyFriends.com discussed your article . First, I want to say you did a good job. your view is nice.

CRITCISM? Is that all you're expecting from Sharpton? He lobbied for Imus' firing. He called for boycotting of companies associated with Imus' show. Where is the call for action against Snoop and 50 Cent?

• "I can't stand no sneaker-wearing nappy head bit_h (word)" - 2Pac: Song lyrics from "Fu__ Friends"
• "Violent J won't be ganked by no nappy-headed, bare-footed, crackheaded sewer skank" - Insane Clown Posse: Song lyrics from "Ghetto Zone Lyrics."
• "Cuz she's got a gang o' kidz nappy-heads and all dirty and she's gettin pimped by a n___ that's thirty." - N.W.A: Lyrics from "Just Don't Bite It."

It's ok for blacks to say this because...why?

Hypocrisy does not help the Dream.

From:
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/04/12/154618.php

None of that excuses what Imus said during his show; instead, it underscores some problems in our culture. First, we have a growing number of artists who demean women. Secondly, this demeaning language is tolerated. Finally, tolerance for such language is highly inconsistent.

This inconsistency was perfectly illustrated by rapper Snoop Dogg during an interview with MTV where he stated that "Rappers are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing sh--, that's trying to get a n---a for his money."

It sounds as if, here, Snoop Dogg is saying it's okay to demean any woman who has not "made it to the next level," but then he goes on to make his most revealing statement by saying, "we ain't no old-ass white men that sit up on MSNBC going hard on black girls... I will not let them mutha-----as say we in the same league as him." In other words, if you're old and white, it's wrong; but if you're black — and young, I suppose — it's okay.

Unfortunately, the reality of this thinking is borne out by the overall reaction to Imus’ idiotic statement. Imus' career is faltering over what he said while rap artists rake in millions of dollars for saying that and much worse. Coming from Imus' mouth, it is "hate speech." Coming from Snoop Dogg, or 2Pac, or a hundred other artist's mouths, these are "..songs coming from our minds and our souls that are relevant to what we feel," as Snoop Dogg so eloquently stated during his interview.

The rap artist are the best thing that the black community has. Rappers are not creating these negative images, they are stating them. Drugs, ho’s, and anything that they say. Rappers calling women ho’s in music is the best way to deter this behavior. Women behaving badly started long before rap did. If girls don’t like the language in hip hop, they should not partake in those activities. A ho is a woman is a woman. I also believe that rappers do a good job adding in songs about girls they really like a dedication to their mothers and other positive things. And lets not be mistaken, THE RUGTERS TEAM DOES LISTEN TO RAP.

For his next high profile target, I suggest that the Right Reverend Al and his comrades go after Jimmy Lovine. Then they can work their way right up the corporate ladder of Vivendi Universal SA to Jean-Bernard Levy.

Meanwhile, who is willing to reach out to the young Afrikan Americans who are most impacted by the self-destructive messages and images in this gangster art form. While this controversy has been brewing, I’ll bet anything that the young folks most negatively impacted by this art form have not missed a minute getting crunk to these self-destructive lyrics and beats.

So if our Black intellectuals, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and whomever decide to carry on this battle for our humanity at the corporate/political level, someone has go into the schools, the streets, the hood, or wherever our people are and talk to and listen to our young people. Needless to say, this task will require a tremendous level of sincerity, and fearlessness. And, that’s just to get their attention. Developing and implementing solutions to the numerous issues they are dealing with is a whole different and extremely difficult level to achieve.

By the way, has anyone mentioned the passing of Calvin Lockhart.

Makheru

German Army recruits getting Imused. Sharpton comments.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04152007/news/regionalnews/german_armys_hate_blitzkrieg_regionalnews_hasani_gittens.htm

I hear in the ethers whites complaining about a "double standard"-- which to me is code for "let's ignore any and all social or historical context about any issue"

I would think the true double standard would be black rappers specifically singling out WHITE women and calling them ho's, bitches, etc. Hell, I don't listen to hip/hop so maybe they do, but
if so nobody's brought it up.

As Tyrell so misogynistically put it, it's about keeping Black woman in their "place". Plain and simple.

So my challenge is to understand why we are so willing to accept hate speech when coming from our own? There are certainly more eloquent and creative and less violent ways to express a messages... so it's not a question of restricting the message per se.

But I wonder what incentive folks would have if there's no cash cow behind the message. That should be the litmus test. How many rappers and music CEOs would continue to produce this crap, if they could not profit from it.

If it really is a matter of artistry and an important message (ala Snoop), there should be no shortage of people willing to spew the hate for free (or close to free). Look at LINUX, podcasts, shareware, freeware, blogs...for the most part these are venues and technologies that are not under the corporate umbrella and have seemed to do just fine. Would 50 cent and Snoop's messages stand that test?

I guess I should add that I am playing a bit of devil's advocate in that last posting-- trying to balance free speech with the idea that there are better ways to get across an idea about problems in our community without resorting to violence of words...even though I still may not approve of the underlying misogyny of the music

http://www.prometheus6.org/node/16229

Aunt B at Tiny Cat Pants is brilliant. Not only does When All Else Fails, Blame Black People hit many nails squarely and sequentially on the head, she does in the comments what we've needed white folks to do for a loooooong time: understand, and explain it to other white folks.

rmcace, what should the "white community" do? do you guys have a "rule" about how to treat racist language? why did the need for a consistent rule only appear when a white guy got criticized? i have not seen any white person protect rappers (except maybe their corporate sponsors) from attacks about their lyrics, but i see a lot of effort around imus. doesnt sound like "you guys" have a consistent approach either.

this angry independent guy sounds angry but not independent. he espouses so many stereotypes about blacks, asians, "black intellectuals," to suggest a sponge-like mind. if you stop treating asians like a homogenous blob, you would notice that vast segments of the population of asian-americans suffer poverty at much higher rates than african americans. but people focus on japanese, chinese and korean immigrants, whose immigration patterns tended/tend to involve more educated classes. immigration among educated blacks creates the same patterns.

and if you did not stereotype black intellectuals you would see the range of opinion. maybe you are too angry to be objective.

and it really does not sound like you have studied poverty or society too much. black people have been subordinate in this nation since the first one was enslaved, jim crowed, lynched, and effectively segregated - up until the 1970s schools were still segregated. this was long before hip hop emerged. so do your research. you believe that 30 years is enough time to overcome 200 years of violence and discrimination. no historian would agree with you.

by the way, latinos have high poverty rates and suffer from many of the same problems as black. latinAS have among the highest poverty rates of any segment of us population. is this because of hip hop. or maybe salsa?

Nat King Cole:

That certain night, the night we met,
There was magic abroad in the air.
There were angels dining at the Ritz,
And a nightingale sang in Berkeley Square.

I may be right, I may be wrong,
But I'm perfectly willing to swear
That when you turned and smiled at me,
A nightingale sang in Berkeley Square.

Ludacris:

She said she had a nigga who was only there for rent
And wouldn't shake her booty for a red cent
She said she never fucked 3 niggas at a time
Til Lil Fate started fuckin with her mind
She said she couldn't see how women turn tricks
And couldn't picture tryna suck a nigga dick

Both songs chosen at random. You've got more problems than Don Imus. You can't blame race, either. Racism was worse when Nat King Cole was recording.

Darren, why don't you post a couple of links to what Barack Obama had to say about Don Imus? And then post links to Barack's meeting with Ludacris. And then post a link to Ludacris' lyrics. That should work.

There is a difference between condemning misogynistic and racially degrading lyrics when asked in an interview, or calling for its end in a speech, and actually calling for an all and out boycott.

The truth is that our "civil rights leaders" have been short on true leadership. They're front and center for these fleeting controversies, exploiting our misery to advance their careers. But as soon as Imus has completed his apology tour, where will Sharpton be?

Calling for Imus' boycott and subsequent firing was the right thing to do, and I'm happy it was successful. But we need help in addressing why we as a people talk to eachother this way, setting an example for the rest of the country to abuse us when they feel so moved. We need genuine, committed and long-term leadership to help us overcome the social, economic, cultural and political obstacles we continue to face within and outside of our own communities. And a few press conferences just doesn't cut it.

After Imus' apology circuit is completed, Sharpton should call for a boycott of the lyrics and videos that repeatedly degrade and abuse Black Americans the way Imus' comments did. He should hold a press conferences to name the corporations that profit off of this abuse. And he can start with a boycott of BET and its corporate sponsors.

The Reverend Al Sharpton
http://www.larryelder.com/ascrimes.html

midwest, you should go deeper. sharpton went to the fcc and demanded a ban on this type of stuff. i disagree with him because i hate the notion of the government tightening freedom of speech. but he made those demands. the government refused. he met with labels demanding the same. he staged a march protesting hip hop very publicly at a hip hop summit where all the biggest label execs and artists attended.

the reality is, no one cares about black men slurring black women except for black feminists, sharpton, and very religious types (who think hip hop is youthful hedonism). sharpton's critiques of hip hop as a black person get no attention because of these reasons. no sponsor is going to pull out of hip hop for this reason; it is too lucrative. msnbc/cbs pulled out of imus, not so much because of sharpton, but because his top advertisers left. he was no longer profitable. you guys have convinced yourselves that the companies acted on morality. it was just an economic decision. if white society cared about black men calling black women ho's (rather than a white guy beating up potential national champions) then you'd get different results. but not enough people care.

white women's political and athletic groups also criticized imus very publicly. of course, all the focus is on sharpton. i do not understand this part.

sharpton called for a boycott of hip hop, midwest. but like the plan to boycott msnbc, it did not go anywhere. have any boycotts been successful recently? i can't remember any. well, southern conservatives boycotted the dixie chix after they have the audacity to criticize bush on the war-which now the slow people have realized is a waste of human life and $$$$.

Truth,

You've got the black feminists and the black leaders and the black civil rights groups coming out your ears and still the culture is filled with this trash. This isn't going to stop until we, blacks, whites, asians and everyone, stop rewarding the Ludacrises and start rewarding the Nat King Coles in our lives.

We did it to ourselves. Nat King Cole didn't morph into Ludacris overnight.

It would be a trivial exercise to find a white thrash metal band to compare to Bing Crosby. Race is irrelevant. Culture isn't.

well, anonymous, hip hop started as some little innocent "rapping" in the early 80s/late 70s. it took over the music industry, and now most of the consumers of hip hop are white. i live in an upper new england suburb and let me tell you - that's all the white kids listen too. i think images are important. i also think that we have to look beyond that. the simpsons, dumb and dumber, dude, where's my car, punked, and other stupid "white" shows receive little criticism, and no one connects them to white "depravity." it is interesting that with blacks, tv is powerful, but with whites, it is a joke -- even when the joke is on black people.

Am I missing something? All of these questions about "why not criticize hip hop?" First of all, I agree that blacks have criticized hip hop all over the place. So much so that Michael Eric Dyson felt compared to write a book defending hip hop from attacks by blacks. So let's dispose of this madness that blacks do not criticize hip hop.

Second, you people are not thinking about reality. Have you ever heard the saying "I can mess with you because I love you?" How many of you will let your brother or sister tease or talk noise to you....or let mom control and manipulate you, or let dad be stern, or your husband/wife/partner nag you to death, but would never let someone "outside of the family" do these things? Well, so many of you have been portraying blacks as this tight nit community, to the degree that you can conflate Obama and Sharpton! If this is the case, it doesnt take much brain matter to figure out that blacks do not feel as threatened by "their family" using racial slurs as when whites do. In the same way that gays call each other the f-word, but will blow a fuse when Coulter uses it. Or women call each other bitches but dont want to hear men do it.

The fact that white people have so much to say about slurs all of a sudden is odd to me. There are not too many slurs against white people, and they certainly are not threatening; the bad is overshadowed by the dominance of positive white images in the media. There are very few positive images of persons of color in the media, and you cannot blame the entire population of poc's for that. Would you blame the entire white community for Imus' behavior? No. So why blame blacks for hip hop, especially when whites by more hip hop than blacks and the record labels are predominately white-owned? Talk about a double-standard.

Anaon - You are actually stupid enough to use a two bit race pimp like Larry Elder's composition in an argument that Sharpton is a race pimp?

On an intellectual black blog?

(Guffaws!)

One of the team sports here is watching the white conservative racists try and pass for black and make complete asses of themselves.

Truth,

I agree.

One of the team sports here is watching the white conservative racists try and pass for black and make complete asses of themselves.

Sayer....

You are babbling,....

What specifically are you challenging in my statement? I'll be happy to debate the matter.

How did you turn my comments around and make it an issue about Asians? LOL

What I stated was...."Why are Blacks lagging behind Whites, Asians, & other groups in just about every major social/economic, and educational category?" This is true!

Is your argument that Black folks are not lagging behind other groups (including Asians) in most of the key social/economic indicators?
If this is your argument... state it...and post your evidence.

As for Black intellectuals... yes I know there is a wide range of opinion. But there are several "Black intellectuals" such as the above author, and others like Michael Eric Dyson, Todd Boyd and others who try to make excuses for Rappers who are involved in the perpetuation of vile language and images regarding women. These have been the talking heads who have been in front of the TV cameras over the past week....although I know that the range of intellectual thought is much more comprehensive.

And your comments regarding Jim Crow and what happened during slavery...etc etc etc... I have heard this argument used repeatedly over the last several days. It's another round-about way of sanitizing and defending Hip Hop. It's another way of saying... blame the "white man".

And once again you tried to deflect attention from the issue.... by bringing up Latinos. Of course they have poverty. What I basically stated was Rap contributes to these problems...it exacerbates them. I didn't mention that it was the lone cause or even the primary cause for the ills in Black America.

Sure Sharpton has criticized Rap Music. But those are far and few between. These is no way, Sharpton has giving the moment of time to Rap has he did with the Don Imus situation. C.Delores Tucker criticized rap music. She brought it all the way to the senate. She organized marches anytime she should.

The only time you see Sharpton in a march against rap music, is when something happens. A rapper dies, rapper gets arrested, or in the latest situation, a rapper slaps a kid. If something bad or news worthy doesn't happen in rap then you won't hear from Sharpton. I'm sure if you ask him a question about it, he'll tell you that the music should change. But if nothing happens or no one ask him, they he won't say anything about it.

So I have to disagree with you, Sharpton doesn't spend as much time on rap music as he did Don Imus.

supremacy claus, that new york lawyer is not a "top lawyer." but anyway, that is the committee that handles things pertaining to judicial misconduct, indlucing bias claims on the basis of race, gender, national origin and sexual orientation. so it is a bit ironic that someone with those duties would express bigotry. this is a stronger case than imus. imus was paid to be a shock jock. this guy is paid to enforce antidiscrimination norms. if you cannot see the difference, you need corrective lenses.

dame, you do not read the news much. sharpton took a proposal to the fcc to shut down hip hop until they vowed to clean it up. that's better than going to the senate because the fcc has direct regulatory authority over the radio airwaves.

One of the team sports here is watching the white conservative racists try and pass for black and make complete asses of themselves.

Yep, Aaron was really trying to pass here on the comment boards but it appears he is pissed at Blacks about losing his Imus and he is letting it all out. LOL!

Again, last I checked, rappers albums are clearly marked with explicit lyrics and cannot be sold to children under 18. Imus was on public FCC-regulated airwaves and taking major corporation advertising money to spew his hatred of Blacks.

Big difference.

WHITES ARE USING NEGROES TO BRING DOWN HIP HOP SO THAT THEY CAN TAKE IT OVER LIKE THEY DID ROCKNROLL. I SAY TO MY YOUNG BROS DON'T LET THEM DO IT. HIP HOP IS YALL'S DEFEND IT.

You are the one who invoked the Asian model minority image (noticeably leaving out Latinos from your list). Anyway, if you would read more literature in Asian studies you would see that your arguments have been debunked on many grounds.

If you stop treating "Asians" as an indistinguishable, homogeneous mass, then you get some interesting stats: several groups within the population of Asians have poverty and educational rates lower than or equal to blacks and latinos; you can similarly breakdown Latino statistics. Also, Asian Americans tend to be concentrated in coastal cities that have higher per capita income than the entire remainder of the nation (the same is true of blacks in these cities); this further skews the Asian economic data.

Furthermore, I did not blame whites for anything. All I said was blacks have been subordinate (from the factors listed) long before hip hop was invented. If you consider that "babbling" perhaps its because you cannot see beyond your own stereotypes. You sing a familiar and elementary chorus: any critique of social structure is blaming whites; any reference to history hates whites...yadda yadda. I am hopeful you can do better than this simplistic argument.

On Asians and poverty, see:http://www.aasc.ucla.edu/policy/aapioverview.htm

The webpage (like many others) states that: "Though they are the fastest growing minority population, there is a lack of of policy attention to the [Asian American Pacific Islander]population because they are viewed as a successful minority. For instance, AAPIs make up a disproportionate large share of those with advanced degrees in engineering and the sciences, and stimulate economic growth through entrepreneurship. However, aggregate numbers hide underlying problems, such as how their per capita income is more than 10% lower than for non-Hispanic whites. Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders are 40% lower than for non-Hispanic whites. In 1999, the median family income of AAPIs also varied by Asian ethnic group. While Asians overall had a median family income of $60,794, Cambodian, Hmong and Laotian median family income was below $30,000. In addition, while Asians overall have a poverty rate of less than 13%, some groups, such as the Cambodian, Hmong, and Laotian have poverty rates significantly higher at 40%, 53% and 32%, respectively.

Hi, how come you aren't posting my comments?

One of the biggest strategies used by conservatives is to repeat ignorant and illogical talking points.

By doing this, they attempt to take the offensive and control of the argument or subject at hand.

In this case, they want to make it about Al Sharpton and some rappers instead of us addressing the systematic racism that goes on in mainstream media.

Do not go astray arguing with them because they want you to waste energy doing so.

Truth: Perhaps, not a top lawyer, but on TV.

The consensus of the fellow members of that committee agrees with you, and they have the most facts.

My point is that Imussing will spread everywhere as a gotcha tool of winning a dispute.

I have discussed the problems of gotcha, as a factor in 9/11. Clinton spends dozens of hours on his gotcha, trivial legal problems instead of on Al Qaeda.

Gotcha can be used by anyone, and is a non-partisan tool of mutual destruction. Black folks are freest with their language, and are next. Gotcha is unjust, as well.

Hi, how come you aren't posting my comments?

If you embed more than one link or do any fancy html formatting, then blackprof's spam filter will stop your comment, and the prof's DO NOT check their Movable Type cue to retrieve comments blocked as spam.

Matter of fact, there's one spambot that posts consistently on multiple threads and gets through the spam filter like hot prunes get through the elderly, (daniel pennant at ebonyfriends.com) however, human commenters who type more than plain text get consistently blocked.

For instance, AAPIs make up a disproportionate large share of those with advanced degrees in engineering and the sciences, and stimulate economic growth through entrepreneurship

And when Asian-Americans surpass all other groups in economic terms, what will you fall back on then? Asian supremacists?

their per capita income is more than 10% lower than for non-Hispanic whites

10% is nothing. They'll cover that ground in a few years given the degrees their getting.

"[A]ny opposition to internal criticism based on the acceptance of repressive anti-feminist, wWhite supremacist, and heteronormative discourses is squarely inconsistent with (what should be) the goals of progressive politics-- liberation and equality."

Well said.

e

From these tables:

http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032006/perinc/new04_000.htm

it looks to me like Asian males with Masters degrees are outearning all others with Masters degrees when compared age group-to-age group.

For instance, a White, non-Hispanic male with a Masters degree, aged 25-34 years is earning, on average, $57,432 while the Asian male with a masters in the same age group is averaging $62,519.

Maybe what you need to claim is institutional racism by Asian males with Masters degrees.

Or maybe engineering and science degrees pay off.

Truth,

The reason I would let just the black community decide the rules for racist comments is because, generally whites don't care what the rules are, as long as they are clear and apply to everyone. So the black community should be able to pick and choose what they want to be able to say. Then just let everyone else know these are the standards and that they apply to everyone.

And Russell Simmons hypocrisy cannot be so easily dismissed. Imus was not fired because he violated an FCC standard or because the term was not allowed on the airwaves. "Ho" has gone out over the airwaves thousands of times. No explicit content warning precedes it. Imus would have still been fired if he said these things at a press conference that was not being broadcast. The bottom line is Russell Simmons called for Imus's firing, yet called for a boycott of Pepsi to support Ludacris and his song "Ho." Those positions cannot be distinguished by the fact that Imus's words went on air, because every DJ who played Ludacris and a bunch of other rappers would be fired on the spot. Imus, and any other DJ would be fired for playing Prussian Blue.

BTW, if you watch rap videos, you will see the term Ho applies to white women as well. When rappers are singing about Hos, there are scantily clad white women gyrating around them.

Looks like Sharpton is pretty busy these days:

From the BBC: German army in 'racist video' row
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6556643.stm

Thanks, I thought that but I was also wondering if I broke some sort of rule :)

Anyway, I was trying to post a link to my blog because I am starting a Positive Hip Hop Free Promotion campaign. I thought that instead of trying to prove to others that there is positive, conscious hip hop, all concerned people could post a free mini slide show I made on their blogs. It will look sort of like an advertisement. Then we will get more exposure for the artists we like who are not currently known in the mainstream. Its free, its easy, and we can even the playing field and diversity of hip hop that is presented to the public. There is no reason why we shouldn't use our internet resources to change the music industry and shape it the way WE want instead of letting someone else do the shaping for us :)

And Russell Simmons hypocrisy cannot be so easily dismissed

And this further validate my point of how these subtle bigots want to argue irrlevancy to stray away from the issue.

I noticed this trend early on with the Yahoo Message Boards during the Bush '04 re-election year. Everytime bad news that reflected the Bush administration was displayed on Yahoo!, the "paid posters" would start posting vulgar comments, repeating the same ignorant talking point that been shot down.

I noticed the pattern was to clog up and disrupt the comment board to suppress people from engaging in productive dialog. I worked with several other people on this social manipulative pattern and we were able to track down the Yahoo identities to just a few profiles using multiple aliases.

Yahoo figured this out themselves and closed down the boards for good. I believe Yahoo treated the disrupters as mavens hoping it attract more people but it didn't.

What I'm basically saying is simple: don't feed the trolls.

It’s been suggested here that whites are responsible for the hateful lyrics in rap because they own the labels and are the main consumers of hip-hop music. Fine.

But even if that’s true, then why did Kelefa Sanneh rate “King” by T.I. and “Dedication 2” by Lil’ Wayne & DJ Drama—records chockfull of misogynist and homophobic lyrics—as two of the best albums of the year? Oh, I see, it’s because Mr. Sanneh works for the New York Times, which is owned by Jews.

So what’s Vibe’s excuse for choosing T.I.’s “What You Know” as the best record of the year?

The hypocrisy on both sides of this debate is mind-blowing.

With all due respect - you sound like a politician just prior to an election, realizes that he is weak in a certain area and quickly puts on an event so that he can add it to his checklist.

Sorry the claim that "Sharpton has criticized hip hop" does not translate into ACTION to EFFECTIVELY shutdown the most gross and offensive words said against Black women. (Please review the lyrics of the Hustle N Flow soundtrack).

While Mr. Sharpton took Imus out to the woodshed - telling the man to his face that their goal was to take away his microphone...........when it came to the Minstrel rappers (the portion of those who are offensive) Shapton and Farrakhan said that they are important voices and that we should WORK WITH THEM to change them for good.

I cannot conclude that Sharpton has any intention of closing his eyes and listening to the words and their offense as a guide. Instead he is governed by the color of the offender.

anonymous, selective quotations distort the truth. I laid out the entire quote so that you would not me accuse me of doing that but you did the same. The point of the website is that people conflate "Asians" into one homogenous group, without noticing the vast diversity in terms of ethnicity and wealth. You posted the "aggregate" stats, but that is exactly what the website was criticizing. Why didn't you post this quote? :While Asians overall had a median family income of $60,794, Cambodian, Hmong and Laotian median family income was below $30,000. In addition, while Asians overall have a poverty rate of less than 13%, some groups, such as the Cambodian, Hmong, and Laotian have poverty rates significantly higher at 40%, 53% and 32%, respectively.

"Sorry the claim that Sharpton has criticized hip hop" does not translate into ACTION to EFFECTIVELY shutdown the most gross and offensive words said against Black women."

What have you done to effectively shut down the most gross and offensive words said against Black women? If you know of a better way to do things you could send your ideas to Sharpton or submit them to the media yourself. All this talk, talk, talk, about the lack of action of others, but where is your action? You complain that he is not a good leader, well what have you done to find a new one?

You may reply that it is not your job and if you do you have just proved my point. Sharpton has stepped up to do the job the best he can. Your talk is not action so I think we can give him a lot of credit for taking any public actions at all.

Ok, someone is comparing Nat King Cole with a hip hop artist. Of course hip hop shows that black culture has plunged into decadence (which of course is why black people suffer). Well how about some "white" comparisons? We could compare Judy Garland (even she was a druggie) with Britney Spears or Madonna. How about Father Knows Best with American Dad or Family Guy or South Park. I wonder how Leave it to Beaver would look alongside Malcolm in the Middle or Married with Children. Or Peter Jennings with Bill O'Reily. Or Elizabeth Montgomery and Paris Hilton. Abe Lincoln versus George Bush. WHAT DO THESE COMPARISONS SHOW US ABOUT THE PROGRESS/REGRESSION OF WHITE PEOPLE? probably nothing - whites are indiviuals, of course; blacks are inseparable, products of pathology, and speak for one another on a constant basis. Interesting.

bronzetrinity you assume that sharpton alone caused imus to go off the air. that's utter b.s. first of all, imus' target - a women's basketball team, college students, underdogs who went to the national championship made them very sympathetic. plus, not only sharpton got involved, but several prominent women's groups criticized imus as well. his employers distanced themselves from him. advertisers felt that it was in their best interest to leave him. and that's when he was dropped. advertisers dont really care about awful lyrics in hip hop or imus' bigotry. they care about dollars. so long as most of society doesnt give a damn about what hip hop artists say about black women, then you wont see any sponsors abandoning them. this is exactly why shaprton's critiques of hip hop really havent gone that far. imus was an easy target, given the scenario.

Toni,

I posted the Nat King Cole bit and I agree with you completely about white singers falling way short of their predecessors. Nirvana isn't my idea of wholesome music.

Hi,
"bronzetrinity you assume that sharpton alone caused imus to go off the air. that's utter b.s. "

I don't assume he's solely responsibe and I didn't say that either. I was just responding to someone's earlier comment about how ineffective Sharpton was.

What I wanted to state was that talking about what leaders did right or wrong is even more ineffective than Sharpton going after Imus. If he had not come foreward I'm sure someone would be asking why our leaders don't do enough and why they did not get involved. I agree with all of the other things in your comment.

"so long as most of society doesnt give a damn about what hip hop artists say about black women, then you wont see any sponsors abandoning them". People get into trends and what is popular. If people abandon particular artists then so will their sponsors. If we make other artists popular then sponsors will flock to them. Sponsors are not the only thing that keeps musicians in business, otherwise people who were on top 10 years ago would be leading the scene now. People's tastes change. There are many reasons why some musicians make it and others don't. The same goes for radio hosts.

What's next for Sharpton? Maybe collecting an apology from the German army.

The more I see these White racists and Imus apologists attack Al Sharpton, the more I'm convinced that he's doing exactly the right thing and he is one of the most effective Black "leaders" out there. Love him or hate him, if he is upsetting "the enemy" he must be doing something right. It's interesting that it is White males who are defending Imus for the most part. The way many are whining about this, you would think that Sharpton attacked American icons such as the Flag, Baseball and Apple pie. Then again, what is more iconically American than a White male saying hateful, racist things about Blacks and women? The fact that these people are defending a hateful White male that attacked innocent Black women speaks volumes about their sense of White male privilege and entitlement to disparage anyone not like themselves. We in the Black community can talk about the rappers, but the White community needs to address why they think it is perfectly OK to use racist hate speech and no one else is supposed to be offended or do something aobut it. Viva Al Sharpton!

Sharpton cannot get enough. He wants German Army enlisted personel Imussed.

I invite cmoney to drive the fine SUV in the South Bronx, on the streets, not on the overhead highways. I doubt the German army could protect you from the fireower you would face.

Do it after the locals wake up, around 10 PM. Then I invite cmoney to the trial of his jackers, where the South Bronx jury laughs at him, all busted up, as they read the verdict, not guilty.

Life in the South Bronx is the outcome of uninterrupted Democrat Party corrupt, local rule for 5 decades. The Democrat Party affirmatively supports crime, to drive out anyone productive that might vote for the opposition. Look for the same across the whole country when the Democrat Party, the party of the lawyer, takes the Presidency in 2008.

Welcome to the South Bronx, America.

I wonder what would have happened if he had made a similar comment only about White women? Do you think the arguments would have gotten so heated? I don't think so. I think that people are so angry and involved with this is because Black people are fed up with so much racism still being around while many in society deny its existence. I think that the White people who are angry are the one's who like to hear racial slurs and want to fight for the right to say it.

I read this on someone else's blog and it stuck with me. The most important question is not what he said, but why are people fighting so hard for the right to say it on the news, on the radio, and in music? Why do they want to say hurtful things so badly? My answer, because they enjoy it. They enjoy insulting women and African Americans.

I demand that Sharpton be Imussed.

I demand that Sharpton be Imussed.

Statistics don't lie. The details are important though.

Sure, Asian males with Master's degrees tend to make more than equivalent white males(most likely because they tend to get science related degrees instead of liberal arts degree), but scientists tend to not gather much political capital. So there is no risk of them gathering enough power.

They also don't have much access to the media to shape public opinion, unlike whites, blacks, and Latinos.

And don't forget the racism against Asians. They are perceived as not being American (they look less "American" than whites and blacks) and sometimes they speak a foreign, non-European sounding language (I've witnessed friends say "ching chang chong" to Asian kids just walking around the mall).

So despite some statistics saying Asians as a group are "successful", there is clear evidence that there are significant subgroups that are significantly less successful. And despite the group success, they are are no threat to have any social power.

hey bronze trin...my arguments were responding to "constructive feedback" not to you. APOLOGIES

You guys quoting the Asian American male Masters Degree wage stats - I am taking them as a given would make AWFUL demographers. Study upon study has shown that Asian Americans are concentrated in a few of the nation's largest cities and largest stats (California, New York). WAKEUP CALL: The income of all persons in those states is higher than the population at large. Because the vast majority of Asian Americans live in a few coastal cities, their income stats are skewed. The data also indicate that 60 percent of Asian Americans are here from another country. This also distorts the relevance of race to their income data (up or down).

Why cant you look at this vastly diverse population with specificity? Sounds like the justification for internment -- we have no ability to segregate the loyal from the disloyal (although we can with Italian Americans and German Americans). Sounds racist to me. And do not whine that I am blaming white people for anything. I am just stating facts.

odd to hear sc describe the democrats as the party of lawyers - given the profession of the namesake of the party of lincoln. anyway, wash, dc is dominated by lawyers, regardless of political party. i guess you shouldnt be surprised, since congress MAKES laws (shocking that so many lawyers would run for public office)...sc your comments sound like they come from a deranged mind. you would appear a lot more intelligent if you didnt just post hysteria and stupidity concerning lawyers and just analyze the issues. you come across as a caricature.

Supremacy Claus is a complete idiot and knows nothing of the South Bronx as he claims. His stereotype should be better directed at the Howard Beach section of Brooklyn where ignorant, violent, racist whites, are the rule rather than the exception. They also vote overwhelmingly republican and are rabid Bush supporters.

The democratic party certainly does not have any influence in that part of NY where you can get killed for just walking nearby, while Black.

TS, I didn't mention the geography effect because you had already said it above.

As an additional note, despite their concentration in more expensive areas, some subsets are earn SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than the national average. Being nationally categorized as living in poverty in LA or NY is even worse than being poor in Denver.

"hey bronze trin...my arguments were responding to "constructive feedback" not to you. APOLOGIES".
I'm sorry too, I sounded kind of snarky and I don't usually sound like that. Man its hard to communicate with so many comments :)

Correction: Howard Beach is technically in Queens but is often referred to as being in Brooklyn.

The criminals of Howard Beach were on the street to beat up and kill people walking by solely for their race? Why were the criminals on the street? A Democrat Party, criminal lover lawyer put them on the street to victimize random people for their race. The Democrat Party promotes evil regardless of race to get the rent for its pro-criminal constituencies.

What is more grotesque than that?

cmoney,

I can't tell if you're a law professor, but you should be writing on the front page.

Naw, just a lawyer that's been around the mill a bit. I'm only smart enough to ignore Supremacy Clause's regular anti-lawyer rants.

Cmomey: You a lawyer? You may be owed money damages for the cult indoctrination without your informed consent, and the resulting mental crippling inflicted on you by law school.

Naw black people should be way more offended by Imus than this:

Lil Whyte, "Bald Head Hoes"

[Chorus:]
bald head hoes, i see some bald head hoes,
erry where i go i see some bald head hoes.
Bald head hoes, i see some bald head hoes,
gossipin' talkin' shit bald head hoes. [x2]

[Verse 1:]
Sick and tired of these bald head hoes ole funky ass hoes,
get my number then stop playin on my muthafuccin phone,
if you like my music bump that shit dont try to get in my business.
keep my name up out yo topics if they involved in gossipin'.
I got my own life, most of yall news is rumors.
tryin to get me and my girl in a mix but yall cant do shit to us.
I rise above the jealousy and then take a vacation to a place
where blue water and sand is half the population.
Then come bacc and have to hear it all over again.
But that's ok the studio's here and plus i got my pen.
Back to bald headed hoes, cause that's the way it goes.
To the one's that wear the same outfit everytime they go to court.
Bitch get a fuccin job, hoe get a fuccin crib,
go get yourself some hair implants, better yet a fuccin wig.
They need some life straightnin', they keep procrastination,
maybe Dr. Phill should do a show on bald headed hoes that's hatin'.

[Chorus x2]

[Verse 2:]
I gotta get my hair done at the spot.
Cuz i cant be walkin up in no beauty shop.
Them hoes be in there talkin all that goss.
Bout all the hoes and the cars they heard i got.
Cuz see i'ma low key man to begin with,
dont dress classy but i'm bangin' these classy chiccs,
if i want shit. I'ma A big nigg even without the setts.
Happy head bitch keep your record out my mesh.

[Verse 3:]
Hoe you got me fucced up askin foe a checc.
I need to call terminex i think i got a pest.
I need to tote a bigger gun and probably wear a vest.
To fight off all these gold diggin gobbers on the set.
So you dont want me to use a rubbeeerrr.
But i heard you's a freak under covveerr.
They call you Mrs. yeast. man just fucced heerr...
real name (wokk wokk) she's a slutterrr.
But it's all good it's the juice man,
from the north i got so much cheese i dont need a hoe.

I agree, cmoney, you should be on the front page. Calling the rest of America "the enemy" ought to make you a regular contributor.

I'm a white gay man and I read this site too. Just letting everyone know.

Here the government cult criminal is forcing employers to hire the felon, using the pretext of race.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1175159036800

A gift to the plaintiff cult criminal bar which will charge employers with negligent hiring.

White Gay Man: Is there a Gayprof law blog site?

Colloquialism and slang is a part of every ethnic group’s speech. The language of Gangsta Rap has excelled and overflowed into mainstream culture but in no way could anyone misunderstand. What a Latina may use in dialogue with his friends and family can not be used by an AA or white or any other person outside the klan. This is just simple commonsense. Imus's comments were intentionally offensive.

Gangsta Rap and the recording industry must be seriously addressed. Hopefully the artist will have gotten the memo. If not... a more strategic approach will be coming.

Yeah Anon you are right this is not a big deal...one white man is a greater threat than thousands of songs like this played nonstop on radio and TV around the world way way outside the black American community...yep, that Imus he is so powerful...next time you hear on TV a Japanese guy call another a "nigga" guess where he got that from???

Nate Dogg]
[chorus]
I've got hoes
I've got hoes, in different area codes (area, area codes..codes)
hoes, hoes,hooooes in different area codes (area, area codes..codes)

[Ludacris]
Now you thought I was just 7-7-0
And 4-0-4, I'm worldwide biotch, act like yall don't know
It's the abominabol "ho" man
Globe-trot international post man
Neighbor-dick dope man
7-1-8s, 2-0-2's
I send small cities and states I-O-U's
9-0-1, matter fact 3-0-5
I'll jump off the g-4, we can meet outside
So control your hormones and keep your drawers on
'Til I close the door and I'm jumping your bones
3-1-2, 3-1-3, 2-1-5, 8-0-3
Read your hor-oscope and eat some hor-derves
Ten I pump one these hoes is self serve
7-5-7, 4-1-0, my cell phone just overloads

[chorus]

[Ludacris]
Now everyday is a ho-ly-day
So stop the violence and put the 4-4 away, keeps you to hold today
5-0-4, 9-7-2
7-1-3, whatcha gon do
You checkin up the scene, I'm checkin a ho tonight
With perpendicular vehicular homicide
3-1-4, 2-0-1
Too much green, too much fun
I bang #### in Bangkok
Can't stop, I turn and hit the same spot
Thank not, I'm the thrilla in Manilla,
Schlong in Hong Kong
Pimp em like bishop, magic Don Juan
Man after Henny with a coke and a smile
I just pick up the muthafuckin phone and dial
I got my condoms in a big-ass-sack
I'm slaggin this dick like a New Jack, biotch

[Nate Dogg]
Is it cuz they like my gangsta walk?[gangsta walk]
Is it cuz they like my gangsta talk?[gangsta talk]
Is it cuz they like my handsome face?[handsome face]
Is it cuz they like my gangsta ways?[gangsta ways]
Whatever it is, they love it
And they just won't let me be
I handle my biz, don't rush me
Just relax and let me be free
Whenever I call, [i call] come running
2-1-2 or 2-1-3
You know that I ball, [i ball] stop frontin
'For I call a substitute freak

[chorus]

[Ludacris]
9-1-6, 4-1-5, 7-0-4
Shout out to the 2-0-6
Everybody in the 8-0-8
2-1-6, 7-0-2, 4-1-4
3-1-7, 2-1-4s and the 2-8-1s
3-3-4, 2-0-5, I see ya'll
3-1-8, 6-0-1s, 2-0-3
8-0-4, 4-0-2, 3-0-1
9-0-4, 4-0-7, 8-5-0
7-0-8, 5-0-2
Ho's in different area codes
Know that
Southern ho-spitality
Northern Exp-ho-sure...
ho ridin on the west cost
ya undastand what im sayin uh uh
uh uh
ho-cus po-cus
you da dopest
uh
hoes to da right
hoes to da left
five hoes this time
whooo
hoe no! ha
hip hop hollercoaster-thats where we are right now
no need to get all ho-style

Bronze trinity: I read this on someone else's blog and it stuck with me. The most important question is not what he said, but why are people fighting so hard for the right to say it on the news, on the radio, and in music? Why do they want to say hurtful things so badly? My answer, because they enjoy it. They enjoy insulting women and African Americans.

Not so. It's because they recognize that liberty is not a means to a higher good, but is itself the highest good a society is capable of producing.

Why'd you go and post that, Dragon Horse? I think I need to wash my eyes now.

Silliness. For all the people here in the comments and the conservatives rattling off "facts" like rap music invented the term "nappy headed," none of you really care enough about rap music to want to reform it. You're most all johnny come latelies to the discussion about rap lyrics and what is to be done about the negative elements of the music and hip hop culture. Moreover, in a month's time, you will have all moved on to something else to whine about. You call Sharpton a hypocrite? Look in the bloody mirror. Sickening.

supremacy clause said: You a lawyer? You may be owed money damages for the cult indoctrination without your informed consent, and the resulting mental crippling inflicted on you by law school.

Wow - what madness.

fyi: Hip hop didnt invent nappy or ho.

Anonymous: Look at the bloggers. They enter law school with IQ's of 300, and wanting to help. They undergo a vicious, tortfeasing, unlawful process.

They emerge believing and using supernatural doctrines from a church. They refuse to acknowledge what the lawyer and its party, the Democrat Party, have done to black folks.

They uninterruptedly defend the predator, the thug, the buffoon, i.e. the lawyer customer. They never, never, ever advocate for, nor even mention the black crime victim. They care only about procedure and gotcha. They never mention the values that define us.

Explain that effect better than by indoctrination and mental crippling.

Anonymous: The enemy is not "the rest of America". It is just that community of people who are opposed to any effort by Black people to achieve equality, which unfortunately includes a lot of ignorant Black people. Don't mischaracterize what I wrote.

Make this about Sharpton v. Imus at your own peril. Make this about the word "'ho" at your own peril.

Any of you kids remember C. Delores Tucker? Calvin Butts? No ... I mean before you Googled them. These were ordinary Black folks who came out nearly 20 years ago and condemned misogynistic and other foul language that served the demeaning of Black culture very well. Yet they were reviled, demeaned and denigrated by Black people worse than any other white racist could ever hope to do. Don't believe me? Research some of Tupac's lyrics. Or just ask Eminem what he thought of her.

I'm not one to moralize, but even someone as laid back as me can see that our society is in danger of losing what little morality we have left. Don Imus and Rush Limbaugh are symptoms of a larger cancer in our media and entertainment. And as much as they continue to sell sickness, they'll need for us--Black folk--to do our part. And that is to fail to pay attention.

Again, Imus and Sharpton are benign little growths on the body of entertainment. The profit on indecency, racism and sexism, is the real sickness.

But y'all just keep fightin' about Sharpton. White America is laughing--all the way to the bank.

I remember the Rev. Mrs. Tucker and commented about her in another thread. Blacks have indeed been complaining about some hip hop's vulgarity, sexism, and violence since the music's inception. The problem is that not all hip hop is awful. Furthermore, the main consumers of violent hip hop are white suburban males. The mostly white record producers feed those interests. However, Dr. Dre, Master P, Suge Knight, Russell Simmons, and, recently, Jay-Z were and are themselves key black enablers in the executive suite of degrading hip hop. Jay-Z artistry is deep and most of his music is far from degrading.

My only concern is that it seems that we give up too quickly in our condemnation of sexism and violence in music. At the same time, I'd rather we continue to educate and speak out than censor.

Joan, acknowledging Jay-Z as an executive enabler of degrading "art", while complimenting on his depth therein, is exactly part of the overall sickness within entertainment today--white people most definitely included.

I'm not a fan of hip hop, primarily because I'm not of that age demographic, but specifically for what little it (or most of it) stands for. But if hip hop does not police itself, then at some point someone will. That "someone" will likely be the same corporate America that is currently looking the other way.

It is, however, beyond hip hop where we as Black folk have a roll to play in terms of decency, appropriate depiction, and cultural respect. And we can afford no ambiguity in our demands and expectations.

In other words, Jay-Z is either part of the problem, or he's part of the solution. And right now, he ain't part of any solutions other than his own.

its hard for me to criticize hip hop on the content of its lyrics, because i dont consider it art anyway. there are a few sensible artists but most of them receive no radio time. popular music is absolutely disgusting - and i'm an not speaking morally, but artistically. "oops i did it again" is not art in view, nor is "i'm gonna ring the alarm" or "i'm gonna beat that ho." this is utter madness. i never listen to radio. thank god for itunes and cds.

While I am deeply offended by rap lyrics that degrade Black women (I haven't purchased hip hop music in years because of this), my main issue isn't as much with the degrading lyrics as it is the obvious lack of airplay as respects "concious" hip hop. Common. Talib. The Roots. As great as their music is, radio stations, black and mainstream, will not play their music.

Now, let's be real for a minute...as much as I hate to admit it, ho's exist. They're here. They're real. From the NBA/NFL ho's, who flock to after-parties in search of a pro baller who's wallet...and pants they can get into, in the hopes that a night of hot sex will endear these men to them...or that they'll end up pregnant, thus able to collect a big, fat child support check every month. To the ho's who'll sex a brotha in exchange for dinner at Red Lobster and some money to get her hair and nails done. The women who offer up their bodies in exchange for money, bling or getting their rent paid.

One of my dearest friends is...well...a ho. Her mindset is, why GIVE it away for free, when she can get something in exchange...a couple of hundred dollar to buy a pair designer shoes...a trinket. No money, no honey. Married men, single men, doesn't matter to her.

These are the women rappers are rapping about. And no, it's not nice to call any woman a ho, even if she is, but in a perfect world, as they say...

So yes, I'm offended by the lyrics, and I do my part in the fight against degrading lyrics by not buying the music...I'm willing to speak out, but women have a responsibility to STOP living up to the images these rappers are rapping about. Stop standing on lines for two and three hours for casting calls to be the lead ho in a video. Stop dancing to the songs at clubs. Stop buying the music. Until WOMEN step up, no one is going to take this fight seriously.

there will always be whores, gang bangers, etc. but this is her recurring theme... blame women. "until women step up"- well rhonda in case you don't know majority of women are not hos, and if majority are hos then I guess majority of men would be hos too. lol!

The real ho is the rapper (brotha who has money) who is foolish enough to sleep with any old woman eager to make him her babby daddy. get a clue, fool!

(to think that even if there were only five hos in the entire nation, rappers could still be rapping about hos)

First of all this may seem odd but I have to say it. Some people need to learn how to spell hoe. It is HOE. Contraction of, or more accurately, a poor pronounciation of the word whore that started in the 'hood. NOT WITH THE GANGSTER RAPPERS. This was before they were even born! I remember hearing and learning that word as a little girl in the school-yard back in the 1960's.

Being called a hoe was a fighting word. I see that it still is. As I recall, it was considered foul language that one didn't dare utter around adults!
I think it is so ridiculous that the childish term has made it to the mainstream.

To all of you apologists out there blaming hip hop and criticizing NABJ, Sharpton and Jackson, how would you feel if someone called you (or your wife) a hoe in your face? Any kind of hoe. A stankin' hoe, a nasty hoe or a dumb hoe. Would you confront them or run away with your tail between your legs to go and pretend to pick a fight with the Gangster Rappers? Get real. If the leaders hadn't spoken up, you would be whining about why they didn't.

If you want the rappers to stop saying it then, stop buying that filth for your kids! I dare you to turn it off when you walk in their room or get in their car. Years ago, I snatched a poster of some rapper off of my daughter's wall because his name was C-murder.

When you hear those loud offenses screaming at you from the next car over, I dare you to use your breath to yell over there and tell them to turn it off! Go ahead and start your protest right there. If you are bad enough to do that then feel free breathe criticism of whomever you feel isn't stepping up the way YOU want them to. Until you get courageous, I say, keep shaving your mustache off, keep relaxing your hair and keep being big and bad on the blogs!

BTW, I have NEVER seen one "nappy headed" rap video girl in my life! Their hair is straighter than an icy ski slope.

"While I am deeply offended by rap lyrics that degrade Black women (I haven't purchased hip hop music in years because of this), my main issue isn't as much with the degrading lyrics as it is the obvious lack of airplay as respects "concious" hip hop. Common. Talib. The Roots. As great as their music is, radio stations, black and mainstream, will not play their music."

Rhonda makes a good point here. There's a reason why some rap artists aren't as commercially viable as Fitty or Nelly or Snoop.

In my opinion, that disparity exists for one reason: degredation and ghetto-izing of Black culture is a bankable commodity. If the Black American community and culture was known to be god-fearing, business-owning, economy-building, and highly educated, thug rap and other forms of degrading artistry would be about as popular as polka.

Now, if Rev. Al wants to jump on that, cool. But he can't be the only one to point that out. A multi-facted attack on media and entertainment is necessary. We saw how corporations buckled after Imus. But they didn't do so because of Al. They did so because they saw that outrage was coming from all directions.

http://www.nathanielturner.com/rudyiwanttoknow.htm
Interesting Discussion, especially Louis Reyes Rivera

Copied from a post on myspace.com

Thank you, Don Imus. You’ve given us (black people) an excuse to avoid our real problem.

You’ve given Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson another opportunity to pretend that the old fight, which is now the safe and lucrative fight, is still the most important fight in our push for true economic and social equality.

You’ve given Vivian Stringer and Rutgers the chance to hold a nationally televised recruiting celebration expertly disguised as a news conference to respond to your poor attempt at humor.

Thank you, Don Imus. You extended Black History Month to April, and we can once again wallow in victimhood, protest like it’s 1965 and delude ourselves into believing that fixing your hatred is more necessary than eradicating our self-hatred.

The bigots win again.

While we’re fixated on a bad joke cracked by an irrelevant, bad shock jock, I’m sure at least one of the marvelous young women on the Rutgers basketball team is somewhere snapping her fingers to the beat of 50 Cent’s or Snoop Dogg’s or Young Jeezy’s latest ode glorifying nappy-headed pimps and hos.

I ain’t saying Jesse, Al and Vivian are gold-diggas, but they don’t have the heart to mount a legitimate campaign against the real black-folk killas.

It is us. At this time, we are our own worst enemies. We have allowed our youths to buy into a culture (hip hop) that has been perverted, corrupted and overtaken by prison culture. The music, attitude and behavior expressed in this culture is anti-black, anti-education, demeaning, self-destructive, pro-drug dealing and violent.

Rather than confront this heinous enemy from within, we sit back and wait for someone like Imus to have a slip of the tongue and make the mistake of repeating the things we say about ourselves.

It’s embarrassing. Dave Chappelle was offered $50 million to make racially insensitive jokes about black and white people on TV. He was hailed as a genius. Black comedians routinely crack jokes about white and black people, and we all laugh out loud.

I’m no Don Imus apologist. He and his tiny companion Mike Lupica blasted me after I fell out with ESPN. Imus is a hack.

But, in my view, he didn’t do anything outside the norm for shock jocks and comedians. He also offered an apology. That should’ve been the end of this whole affair. Instead, it’s only the beginning. It’s an opportunity for Stringer, Jackson and Sharpton to step on victim platforms and elevate themselves and their agenda$.

I watched the Rutgers news conference and was ashamed.

Martin Luther King Jr. spoke for eight minutes in 1963 at the March on Washington. At the time, black people could be lynched and denied fundamental rights with little thought. With the comments of a talk-show host most of her players had never heard of before last week serving as her excuse, Vivian Stringer rambled on for 30 minutes about the amazing season her team had.

Somehow, we’re supposed to believe that the comments of a man with virtually no connection to the sports world ruined Rutgers’ wonderful season. Had a broadcaster with credibility and a platform in the sports world uttered the words Imus did, I could understand a level of outrage.

But an hourlong press conference over a man who has already apologized, already been suspended and is already insignificant is just plain intellectually dishonest. This is opportunism. This is a distraction.

In the grand scheme, Don Imus is no threat to us in general and no threat to black women in particular. If his words are so powerful and so destructive and must be rebuked so forcefully, then what should we do about the idiot rappers on BET, MTV and every black-owned radio station in the country who use words much more powerful and much more destructive?

I don’t listen or watch Imus’ show regularly. Has he at any point glorified selling crack cocaine to black women? Has he celebrated black men shooting each other randomly? Has he suggested in any way that it’s cool to be a baby-daddy rather than a husband and a parent? Does he tell his listeners that they’re suckers for pursuing education and that they’re selling out their race if they do?

When Imus does any of that, call me and I’ll get upset. Until then, he is what he is — a washed-up shock jock who is very easy to ignore when you’re not looking to be made a victim.

No. We all know where the real battleground is. We know that the gangsta rappers and their followers in the athletic world have far bigger platforms to negatively define us than some old white man with a bad radio show. There’s no money and lots of danger in that battle, so Jesse and Al are going to sit it out.Imus isn’t the real bad guy
Instead of wasting time on irrelevant shock jock, black leaders need to be fighting a growing gangster culture.
By JASON WHITLOCK
Columnist

Copied from a post on myspace.com

Thank you, Don Imus. You’ve given us (black people) an excuse to avoid our real problem.

You’ve given Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson another opportunity to pretend that the old fight, which is now the safe and lucrative fight, is still the most important fight in our push for true economic and social equality.

You’ve given Vivian Stringer and Rutgers the chance to hold a nationally televised recruiting celebration expertly disguised as a news conference to respond to your poor attempt at humor.

Thank you, Don Imus. You extended Black History Month to April, and we can once again wallow in victimhood, protest like it’s 1965 and delude ourselves into believing that fixing your hatred is more necessary than eradicating our self-hatred.

The bigots win again.

While we’re fixated on a bad joke cracked by an irrelevant, bad shock jock, I’m sure at least one of the marvelous young women on the Rutgers basketball team is somewhere snapping her fingers to the beat of 50 Cent’s or Snoop Dogg’s or Young Jeezy’s latest ode glorifying nappy-headed pimps and hos.

I ain’t saying Jesse, Al and Vivian are gold-diggas, but they don’t have the heart to mount a legitimate campaign against the real black-folk killas.

It is us. At this time, we are our own worst enemies. We have allowed our youths to buy into a culture (hip hop) that has been perverted, corrupted and overtaken by prison culture. The music, attitude and behavior expressed in this culture is anti-black, anti-education, demeaning, self-destructive, pro-drug dealing and violent.

Rather than confront this heinous enemy from within, we sit back and wait for someone like Imus to have a slip of the tongue and make the mistake of repeating the things we say about ourselves.

It’s embarrassing. Dave Chappelle was offered $50 million to make racially insensitive jokes about black and white people on TV. He was hailed as a genius. Black comedians routinely crack jokes about white and black people, and we all laugh out loud.

I’m no Don Imus apologist. He and his tiny companion Mike Lupica blasted me after I fell out with ESPN. Imus is a hack.

But, in my view, he didn’t do anything outside the norm for shock jocks and comedians. He also offered an apology. That should’ve been the end of this whole affair. Instead, it’s only the beginning. It’s an opportunity for Stringer, Jackson and Sharpton to step on victim platforms and elevate themselves and their agenda$.

I watched the Rutgers news conference and was ashamed.

Martin Luther King Jr. spoke for eight minutes in 1963 at the March on Washington. At the time, black people could be lynched and denied fundamental rights with little thought. With the comments of a talk-show host most of her players had never heard of before last week serving as her excuse, Vivian Stringer rambled on for 30 minutes about the amazing season her team had.

Somehow, we’re supposed to believe that the comments of a man with virtually no connection to the sports world ruined Rutgers’ wonderful season. Had a broadcaster with credibility and a platform in the sports world uttered the words Imus did, I could understand a level of outrage.

But an hourlong press conference over a man who has already apologized, already been suspended and is already insignificant is just plain intellectually dishonest. This is opportunism. This is a distraction.

In the grand scheme, Don Imus is no threat to us in general and no threat to black women in particular. If his words are so powerful and so destructive and must be rebuked so forcefully, then what should we do about the idiot rappers on BET, MTV and every black-owned radio station in the country who use words much more powerful and much more destructive?

I don’t listen or watch Imus’ show regularly. Has he at any point glorified selling crack cocaine to black women? Has he celebrated black men shooting each other randomly? Has he suggested in any way that it’s cool to be a baby-daddy rather than a husband and a parent? Does he tell his listeners that they’re suckers for pursuing education and that they’re selling out their race if they do?

When Imus does any of that, call me and I’ll get upset. Until then, he is what he is — a washed-up shock jock who is very easy to ignore when you’re not looking to be made a victim.

No. We all know where the real battleground is. We know that the gangsta rappers and their followers in the athletic world have far bigger platforms to negatively define us than some old white man with a bad radio show. There’s no money and lots of danger in that battle, so Jesse and Al are going to sit it out.Imus isn’t the real bad guy
Instead of wasting time on irrelevant shock jock, black leaders need to be fighting a growing gangster culture.
By JASON WHITLOCK
Columnist

there will always be whores, gang bangers, etc. but this is her recurring theme... blame women. "until women step up"- well rhonda in case you don't know majority of women are not hos, and if majority are hos then I guess majority of men would be hos too. lol!

The real ho is the rapper (brotha who has money) who is foolish enough to sleep with any old woman eager to make him her babby daddy. get a clue, fool!

(to think that even if there were only five hos in the entire nation, rappers could still be rapping about hos)

Posted by: Casual observer

A very wise man once said these words:

The measure of a race is determined by the caliber of it's woman.

Like I said, while I don't like the term hoe, it applies to more than a few women. It applies to the women who show up backstage after rap concerts to sleep with rappers or member of their entourage. The ones who'll glady have full blown sex with, or give blow jobs to the rapper in question in hopes of becoming his "main bitch" or his "side bitch" (those comments were made by black women in a documentary about the antics, on stage, and off, during a rap tour). Would you be surprised to know that some of these guys are married with children? And these women know these men are married, yet they show up anyway, offering their bodies. Unfortunately, some of the married rappers are all too happy to take advantage of the opportunity.

Let's talk about the black women walking around, sans tops, while rappers and their entourage groped them, felt them up, and sucked on their breasts. Didn't look like these "young ladies" were being forced to do anything...let's talk about how they went in bus bathrooms to have sex with these guys. Of course they hadn't yet reached the ho status of Superhead, but from what I saw, they certainly were apiring to do so.

So let's not pretend that all black women are bastions of morality and virtue...more than a few are far from it. And frankly, while the word hoe is offensive, I can't understand why a hoe would be offended by someone calling her what she is.

Like it or not, if women are truly offended by degrading lyrics, it's up to them to stop buying the music, stop dropping it like it's hot and booty clapping to it in the club, and stop auditioning for ho roles in videos. Women, are huge purchasers of hip hop; that is a well kept secret. If I had a dollar for everytime a woman said, "I know what he's saying ain't right, but that beat is slammin'!" I could retire comfortably.

Rappers are the problem, the white moguls who get rich off these fools are the problem, and the women who play the ho role, on video and in real life are the problem.

A 19th-century Don Imus—In 1895 John W. Jacks, president of the Missouri Press Association, wrote an open letter denigrating Black women, claiming that they were "wholly devoid of morality and that they were prostitutes, thieves and liars." He was referring to ALL of them. The letter was sent to Florence Balgarnie of the British Anti-Lynching Committee in an attempt to discredit Ida B. Wells and her anti-lynching campaign in the South. Ida B. Wells had written her book on the number of lynchings in the South and had visited Britain and traveled throughout that country telling the world about lynching in America. The British population was outraged as the British Press gave a lot of copy to Ida B creating great embarrassment in the US. Sooooooooooo, more than 100 years ago, a white man—note that he was with a PRESS association—was calling black women prostitutes or in the truncated version "hos" and this was more than 80 years before black male rappers used the term. Don''t get me wrong, I hate the term but let's just set the record straight. Remember, John Henri Clarke said: History is the clock by which we tell our cultural and political time of day. Let us not be lazy with our history, it can come in handy.

—Peggy Bertram, African American Women
http://www.nathanielturner.com/index.html

Why don't rappers refer to themelves as hos for sleeping around with many women?

I AM TIRED OF THIS CRAP FROM EVRY RAPPER AND IDIOTS ON THE SIDELINE SAYING RAP IS ART AND A REFLECTION OF WHERE THERE FROM TELL ME WHAT ART IT IS IN THE WHISPER SONG BEAT THE PU$$Y UP BEAT THE PU$$Y UP I COULD GO ON AND ON WITH THE CRAP THATS ON THE AIR AND I AM TIRED OF AL SHARPTON AND JESSIE JACKSON ONLY WORRYING ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT GET THEM IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA THERE IS SO MUCH GOING ON IN EVRY COMUNITY IN EVRY CITY CHILDREN BEING SHOT BY GANG BANGERS INOCENT UNLIKE RODNY KING WHO WAS HIGH ON CRACK SPEEDING TO GET AWAY FROM THE COPS IM NOT A WHITE COP AND I WOULDA KICKED HIS ASS FOR GP AND BEING A LOOSER

Prof. H: Further support for your assertion:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04182007/news/regionalnews/rev__al_ducks_a_rap_regionalnews_carl_campanile.htm

Sharpton has some nerve...

The good "Reverend" has become an opportunist pig as of late. His recent revelation of the ills of SOME forms of hip hop has only gained his interest because he can finally sink his teeth into something that will put him in the limelight. Obama was taking his shine and lord knows Sharpton can't have that. How quickly have we forgotten that Rev. Sharpton is the same guy who partied with Jay-Z, attended Diddy's "white party" religiously and eagerly takes donations from the so-called denegrates of hip hop. He's a clown. Yeah, I said it.

Jesse Jackson is also a "press whore" too. Jesse is the toothless lion looking for any occasion to whore...I mean.."roar" in front of reporters and cameras. After his hymie town incident, he lost major streams of revenue, relevance and stature. he like Sharpron has become poster children in futility.

Caucasian Please! America’s True Double-Standard For Misogyny & Racism

This is the introductory piece in a series that I am writing called: Caucasian Please! America’s True Double-Standard For Misogyny & Racism.

Introduction

In this composition I will not be addressing the whole of hip-hop and rap, but rather hardcore and gangsta rap. It is my assertion that the mainstream media and political pundits---right and left--- have painted rap and hip-hop with a very broad brush. Let me be perfectly clear, hardcore and gangsta rap is not listened to, watched, consumed or supported in my home and never has. I will not be an apologist for anything that chooses to frame the dialogue about Black women (and women in general) and Black life in morally bankrupt language and reprehensible symbols.

Now in the wake of MSNBC’s and CBS’s firing of Don Imus, the debate over misogyny, sexism and racism has now taken flight ---or submerged, depending on your point of view. There are many, mostly white, people who believe that Imus was a fall guy and he is receiving blame and criticism for what many rap artists do continually in the lyrics and videos: debase and degrade Black women. A Black guest on an MSNBC news program even went as far as to say, “Where would a 66 year-old white guy even had heard the phrase nappy-headed ho” ---alluding to hip-hop music’s perceived powerful influence upon American culture and life (and apparently over the radio legend as well) ---and by so doing gave a veneer of truth to the theory that rap music is the main culprit to be blamed for this contemporary brand of chauvinism. However, I concur with bell hooks, the noted sociologist and black-feminist activist who said that “to see gangsta rap as a reflection of dominant values in our culture rather than as an aberrant ‘pathological’ standpoint, does not mean that a rigorous feminist critique of the sexist and misogyny expressed in this music is not needed. Without a doubt black males, young and old, must be held politically accountable for their sexism. Yet this critique must always be contextualized or we risk making it appear that the behavior this thinking supports and condones,--rape, male violence against women, etc. -- is a black male thing. And this is what is happening. Young black males are forced to take the ‘heat’ for encouraging, via their music, the hatred of and violence against women that is a central core of patriarchy.”

There are those in the media, mostly white males (but also some black pundits as well), who now want the Black community to take a look at hip-hop music and correct the diabolical “double-standard” that dwells therein. Before a real conversation can be had, we have to blow-up the myths, expose the lies and cast a powerful and discerning light on the “real” double-standards and duplicity. Kim Deterline & Art Jones in their essay, Fear of a Rap Planet, points out that "the issue with media coverage of rap is not whether African Americans engaged in a campaign against what they see as violent, sexist or racist imagery in rap should be heard—they should. …why are community voices fighting racism and sexism in mainstream news media, films and advertisements not treated similarly? The answer may be found in white-owned corporate media’s historical role as facilitator of racial scapegoating. Perhaps before advocating censorship of a music form with origins in a voiceless community, mainstream media pundits should look at the violence perpetuated by their own racism and sexism."

Just as the mainstream media and the dominant culture-at-large treats all things “Black” in America as the “other” or as some sort of science experiment in a test tube in an isolated and controlled environment, so hardcore rap is treated as if it occurred in some kind of cultural vacuum; untouched, unbowed and uninformed by the larger, broader, dominant American culture. The conversation is always framed in the form of this question: “What is rap’s influence on American society and culture?” Never do we ask, "What has been society’s role in shaping and influencing hip-hop?” Gangsta and hardcore rap is the product of a society that has historically objectified and demeaned women, and commercialized sex. These dynamics are present in hip hop to the extent that they are present in society. The rapper who grew up in the inner-city watched the same sexist television programs, commercials and movies; had access to the same pornographic and misogynistic magazines and materials; and read the same textbooks that limited the presence and excluded the achievements of women (and people of color as well), as the All-American, Ivy-league bound, white kid in suburban America. It is not sexism and misogyny that the dominant culture is opposed to (history and commercialism has proven that). The dominant culture’s opposition lies with hip-hop’s cultural variation of the made-in-the-USA misogynistic themes and with the Black voices communicating the message. The debate and the dialogue must be understood in this context.

Thanks for addressing this topic. Much more needs to be said and done.
What drives the Hip Hop industry? Greed--pure and simple…and destructive. Unfortunately, the record producers and their stable of artists are amoral when it comes to making money. So much that is screwed-up in our country is due to greed and those of us who patronize it. One courageous African-American broadcaster has taken a stand. Many more must do so. You might want to catch my blog at: http://dwhitsett.wordpress.com/

I'm a little late to this thread, but how come no one mentions that Al Sharpton's presidential bid was backed by right wingers? I believe that all Al Sharpton does is follow the orders of the right wingers who pay him. What Don Imus said was offensive, but the fact is that most of his guests are Democrats so here was an opportunity for the right wingers to get rid of him using Sharpton as their pawn once again. Al Sharpton doesn't care about anyone's civil rights, all he cares about is his next paycheck.

Yes there are scattered instances of foul-mouth rock but they're in the minority. However it seems that in rap this type of language is almost a necessity to be taken seriously, so kids who listen to nothing but rap are getting a steady of diet of language that is damaging. And it is so prevalent that there is then also peer pressure to copy the rappers. Someone who likes rock could always find a group to idolize that was on the clean side, but the kids who idolize rappers can't do that. It's this pervasiveness that makes rap so much more damaging to young blacks. Or so it seems to me.

Now, where does the conversation go from here?

Posted by: Edward Rhymes

Edward, unless people are willing to acknowledge the glaring double standard you put out here for all to see, the conversation should stop at your post.

Peace people

We love you

There are glaring double standards all over the place; for example, whites use a majority of drugs while blacks make up the vast majority of drug arrests. But acknowledging a double standard doesn't fix the situation. If, in fact, it's white producers who are behind the growth of rap, and who are making most of the money, shouldn't that make the black community angrier over the damage that's done by rap to young blacks? Making excuses for rap, that there's a double standard, accomplishes what exactly? If rap wasn't damaging then it wouldn't matter, but if rap is part of the system's way of keeping black young people from rising to their true potential, why would anyone defend it?

There clearly is an attempt by the white establishement to keep blacks from getting their fair share. I believe that the reason is not racism, per se, but rather divide and conquer. If the rich can keep poor whites and poor blacks apart, then they'll never have enough political power to stop the rich from sucking the wealth of the majority into their pockets. If blacks support rap despite the dangers it poses to their own community, we (anyone who is not super wealthy) all suffer the consequences.

It's time to stop defending rap simply because there's a double standard. That shouldn't be the end of the conversation but serve merely as the prologue. The real bottom line is whether or not rap is damaging to the black community, and if it is, then the black community needs to stop it, rather than defend it so that the rich, white producers can continue to make more and more money.

I'm white, so I full well expect you folks to pounce on this, but it needs to be said. Here is an example of what this 'rap culture' is doing for us all..... Not long ago, my son asked for something that I did not feel was proper for a child his age (17). It's not important what I denied him; it is very important how he reacted. His exact words were, "come on Dizzle, you feel me don't you, my nigga". I went through the roof. In spite of what (some of) you think about us white folks, many of us have spent our entire lives working to move beyond the mistakes of our ancestors. When I told my son that his language was not appropriate in any situation, he told me that I was behind the times. "It's not about blacks and whites anymore, Dad. We all talk that way. My black friends call me 'nigga' and I call them 'nigga'. My observation is that by mainstreaming this type of language in rap (or hip hop or whatever) music, it is becoming woven into the language of our children, both black and white. It does not matter how each of us adults feel about the issue, our kids are hearing it, deciding for themselves, and running with it. It could take decades for this new damage to be undone. As for Imus and Sharpton, please, they are both irrelevant. Both are tired old men who have outlasted their ability to remain relevant in this day and age. As for the rest of us, what now?

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