The DuBoisian track has been a miserable failure. Here is what I mean:

"The dark truths of the past are uncomfortable, and the relationship of the violent past to the present pattern of racially segregated neighborhoods, schools, and employment opportunities has been santitized with the neutralizing terms."

Why the fixation on segregation? What was wrong with segregation? Think about it for a moment. Back in the day there were black banks, black athletic leagues, black newspapers, and many black businesses to go with the many black colleges and universities that still exist today. And by the way, I like my black neighborhood. I do believe that this fixation on segregation is nothing but an obsession with white folks. I reminds me of how some feminists believe that a group of men together automatically translates into something that is heinous and evil therefore, women must invade in order to set the world right.

Maybe I am just a dreamer but, for minute, see things my way. Imagine a world were we would curse the Kansas City Monarch's for increasing an already bloated payroll by signing an aged Roger Clemens. Now imagine Clemens being upset because he wanted Satchell Paige's number but couldn't because it was retired. Imagine Florida State missing out on that top football prospect because ALL the top prospects' first choice is Howard (with Tuskeegee being a close second). How about George Will laboring over whether or not to Join Dick Morris and Stanley Crouch at the Pittsburgh Courier. Think of an opening round of March Madness where #1 ranked Coppin State plays #15 ranked UTEP. Think of the Morehouse Glee Club being the standard that Yale's Whippenpoofs strive to match or the USC marching band insuring their instruments with North Carolina Mutual because they are the best.

The DuBoisian track was a catastrophic failure. We became white folks obsessed and made institution building a bottom list priority.

Al From Bay Shore wrote: "What was wrong with segregation?" Do I really need to answer this or are you just trolling?

NatX, why are black folks talking about segregation and white folks aint? You are not seeing it the way I am. If black folks build independent institutions, why then is there a need to have to be around white folks. Surely the HBCU's are examples of black folks being segregated as well as producing success. Nothing against white people. I am just bothered by the integrationist strategy.

Look at what happens when black folks are left to their own devices in a segregated environ: R&B, The Blues, The Harlem Renaissance, The Detroit Poets, Black Colleges, Georgetown (it was once predominately black), Jazz, Soul Food and Creole Cuisine... Again, what was so bad about segregation. If anything, a by product of integration was the loss of control of black institutions by black folks.

Integration, as a strategy, appealed to our emotions and had little to do with strengthening and refining the institutions that were uniquely ours. Integration also destroyed our sense of historic tradition. Why on earth did we allow for 50's and 60's era R&B to become labeled as Rock and Roll? Rock and Roll was actually a type of R&B. Talk about an artistic coup de etat. Jazz, our music, has been banished to public radio and what passes for Jazz on commercial radio is nothing but pop instrumentalism. I have a hard time putting Kenny G and Art Blakey in the same musical category.

Integration has all but destroyed our cultural and historical traditions. Notice how people are starting to label soul food as "comfort food"? Notice how Hip Hop as an artistic movement has now been supplanted by Rap and its narrow aesthetic? In today's Rap market there is no room for the divergent aesthetics of De La Soul or the Jungle Brothers.

On a positive note, a few things that are culturally endemic to us is a cultural and artistic integrity that seems to exist in the counterculture. Deep House Music (as well as an ancillary appreciation for its antecedents ie: TSOP, SalSoul Records, Larry Levan) and so-called "Neo-Soul" enjoys an underground popularity which keeps it from being co-opted (Many people breathed a sigh of relief when Madonna's vogue did not create a nationwide trend in music). I hear of a very hip restaurant in Atlanta (Dare) where there is an authentic and unique approach to soul food that is akin to the nouvelle cuisine trend of the early 80's. I hear they make a fabulous macaroni and cheese/lobster souffle. They play house music and serve the food in a Tapas style.

I'm sorry but I feel that the "success" of integrationist strategy has been over-hyped. I often wonder if there was any real success to it at all.

"For legal scholars, the question of how to use the law to seek racial justice will be especially challenging in the new era of radical conservative jurisprudence in the Supreme Court. "

Talk about oxymoron...that is classic.

Has anyone on this site ever read, "The American Way of Death", by Nancy Mitford?

And the point my brother - : mabhekaphansi

like to hear it

Al From Bay Shore:

What a straw horse you just raised? Many of us here are not believers in integration; yet we know that justice of the Supreme Court can set a precedent for many years to come; or open the door for tyrants as in the in the 1920’s here and in Germany.
Let’s see how far we have gotten by simple dates of white terrorism –
Rosewood 1923, investigated 1993, no reparations or atonements - 70years
Wilmington 1898, investigated 2006, no reparations or atonements -108 years
Tulsa 1921, investigated 2001, no reparations or atonements - 80 years
yet 40 years is a long time ago

I believe a very important question was asked; it was not asked about our cultural development, which I fault us, as Jimmy Castor stated –we are the only race in the world that doesn’t honor its own cultural icons or history. But this neglect has moved to our own understanding of social-political history – sad Oh BTW, you do know who Caster is?

What was wrong with segregation? -- Al From Bay Shore

Yeah, segregation seems to work well, nowadays. Especially in education.

nana and Ronnie, don't be upset because I questioned the viability of a political and social strategy that has, for the most part, been the bread and butter of the black intelligentsia for over 100 years. You guys are no different than those elitist snobs who scoffed at Marcus Garvey's penchant for self help doctrines.

Integration, to me, is yet another white man obsessed "liberation strategy". But maybe I'm old fashioned in that Elijah Muhammad kind of way. We should have focused on strengthening and refining black institutions rather than be absorbed by those created by white folks.

As much as it pains me to admit it, call me Henry Belsidus, but I'm with Al on this one.

Me too.

Al makes a lot of good points.

"...Ronnie, don't be upset because I questioned the viability of a political and social strategy that has, for the most part, been the bread and butter of the black intelligentsia for over 100 years. You guys are no different than those elitist snobs who scoffed at Marcus Garvey's penchant for self help doctrines.

Integration, to me, is yet another white man obsessed "liberation strategy". But maybe I'm old fashioned in that Elijah Muhammad kind of way. We should have focused on strengthening and refining black institutions rather than be absorbed by those created by white folks."

I'm not upset with you, Al. Rather, I look at today's contemporary brand of voluntary segregation and ask myself if it's working. Sure, on a personal level it may work just fine for some. But the choice of integration or segregation, it seems to me, is only as good as the results gained by a predominance of people in terms of education, personal wealth, health and political strength.

I won't be so naive as to suggest that integration is the key solution to our problems. It is not. But over the last 30 years--a significant stretch of time, mind you--we have had our choice of integrating or segregating. In my neck of the woods, the predominant choice has been the latter. And education, personal wealth, health and political strength all seem to be one step ahead of failure. One is compelled to ask: is this working?

"You guys are no different than those elitist snobs who scoffed at Marcus Garvey's penchant for self help doctrines."

Al - I have no idea what you are taking about. I never joined the civil rights movement b/c I was a follower of Malcolm and Marcus Garvey. And have been a working class organizer since coming out of the Nam. And proud pan-Africanist!
I am very leery of folks who attack our intellectual history. For this is going on everywhere and even from our own. This is not about Garvey vs. Dubois, (talking about nostalgia) this is about giving leadership and understanding the role the Supreme Court plays in creating the norms of the land. Malcolm read everything. Why? So that if our folks asked a question he could intelligently give an answer. In this global world, we are to be stuck in our provincial world that is exactly what our enemies want us to do. If we retreat into our hoods, panic given the “cascading of information” this is preparing leadership for this century, I don’t think so.
We must debate the complexity not over-simplify. Dangerous given the rise of the possibility of a police state.

For those who want to stay in their mental "hood", at the disservice to our children. Can't even approach this topic as laid out by Ms, Jordon

Forecast: Sex and Marriage with Robots by 2050

Black prof might want to talk about the present.

State Bar of California, Civil Rights Group Spar Over Affirmative Action

Tuesday, October 16, 2007

By William LaJeunesse

""Currently only about one in three African-Americans who goes to an American law school passes the bar on the first attempt and a majority never become lawyers at all," says UCLA law professor Richard Sander.

In an article published in the Stanford Law Review, Sander and his research team concluded several thousand would-be black lawyers either dropped out of law school or failed to pass the bar because of affirmative action."

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301722,00.html

"I won't be so naive as to suggest that integration is the key solution to our problems. It is not. But over the last 30 years--a significant stretch of time, mind you--we have had our choice of integrating or segregating. In my neck of the woods, the predominant choice has been the latter. And education, personal wealth, health and political strength all seem to be one step ahead of failure. One is compelled to ask: is this working?"

If it isn't, we probably should try something new, because the Supreme Court, and most Americans, won't allow race-based preferences to be the means of integrating schools. That's finished.

For the revolutionaries and revolutinaries at heart.

This year we celebrate the 40th anniversary of Revolutionary Earnesto 'che' Guevara

moreorless.au.com/heroes/guevara.html

and the 20th anniversary of slain Burkina Faso Revolutionary leader Thomas Sankara.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7045029.stm
www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=2&ItemID=13959

Others celebrated the KKKolumbus day (12th October).

Have a Revolutionary Day!

Mwafrika - talk about the middle class fighting for the poor and the darker citzens of a nation.

What is being talked about today is what do we do with the surplus, ignorant mass. hmmm

If it isn't, we probably should try something new, because the Supreme Court, and most Americans, won't allow race-based preferences to be the means of integrating schools. That's finished. -- BMOC

True. The Supremes basically said "integrate on your own; don't expect the Courts to do it for you". Now, I understand that integration is out of the question for many folks. But the reality is that our schools are what they are: a tiny few are good; the rest are either failing or mediocre at best.

So our family, as you said, tried something new. We decided to be selfish and not wait until "our" schools got better; we committed heresy by moving to diverse neighborhood and enrolled our kids in a diverse high school. Not for the privilege of "sitting next to white kids", but to be able to learn from current texts and materials; from teachers who understand their jobs; and to be among a diverse group of kids who were motivated to achieve and succeed.

I realize that this is unpopular amongst some, but we weren't about to watch our kids languish in an underachieving school.

Ronnie said: The Supremes basically said "integrate on your own; don't expect the Courts to do it for you". Now, I understand that integration is out of the question for many folks. But the reality is that our schools are what they are: a tiny few are good; the rest are either failing or mediocre at best.

Nana said: Robots in 2050.

I concur with Ronnie. I think that the US is a different place today, and I just can't see how Black kids being segregated from say, Asians and Hispanics and other groups is going to be conducive for the global picture. It made sense back in the day, and until recently I thought it still made sense today, but after spending time abroad, it's harder to say.

For example, in many Western European countries communities that are "segregated"---whether intentionally, or due to well intentioned but ill concieved social projects---are not fairing well at all compared with the majority population.

just a goofy thought:

if people can have sex with robots by 2050, then surely we can create the perfect "Robot teacher" and Robot school boards and put them in all schools, no excuses.

I'm sensing that in another 100 years, people will have a microchip option, because we won't be able to compete with the robots anyway.

Question for the board - Do any of the contributors from Africa have experience on the ground in East Central Africa (Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, Congo, Tanzania)?

Second - I think re-segregation is an increasingly diminishing excercise in futility. Like it or not, that Pandora is fully out of the box - and there is no way to put it back.

Question for the board - Do any of the contributors from Africa have experience on the ground in East Central Africa (Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, Congo, Tanzania)?

Second - I think re-segregation is an increasingly diminishing excercise in futility. Like it or not, that Pandora is fully out of the box - and there is no way to put it back.

Second - I think re-segregation is an increasingly diminishing excercise in futility. Like it or not, that Pandora is fully out of the box - and there is no way to put it back.

That is correct and when we stop discussing the tired dualism of white and black folks the better. African am can not afford to take the road of the old line nativist and isolate themselves from the other thriving cultural and ethnic groups of the world. We are more honored that folks in this society would like to reveal.