50 Cent must not be quite as uninformed as some of his lyrics and public comments would have one to believe. In 2004 he purchased a 10% interest in Glaceau, the company that makes "vitaminwater" and that was just bought by Coca-Cola for over 4 billion dollars. For the math challenged, that means Mr. Curtis Jackson’s take is $400 million.
Hip-hop deity RZA attended a "Young Hollywood" reception for Hilary Clinton yesterday. Call me naive, but I would expect the conscious hiphop types to be supporting Obama. The response that the two candidates are not that different on the issues is an argument in support of Obama, for reasons of racial solidarity and distributive justice. You know, like Bill Richardson saying he stuck with Alberto Gonzales for a while because they’re both Latino. Like Italian Americans feeling proud of Justices Scalia and Alito, even if many don’t support all their positions.
In the same vein, a friend who is fundraising for Obama recently bemoaned the difficulty of her work with African-Americans. She opined that she couldn’t imagine that massing support would be as difficult for a Jewish or Irish candidate among Jewish and Irish donors.
----- EXTENDED BODY: ----- EXCERPT: ----- KEYWORDS: ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: cnulan EMAIL: cnulan@oeiad.com IP: 65.69.77.51 URL: http://www.frontlinemultimedia.net DATE: 05/31/2007 12:17:07 PM Coke sale:50 Cent 1/2 Billionaire status unclear ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Lester Spence EMAIL: unbowed@gmail.com IP: 128.220.251.100 URL: http://blacksmythe.com/blog DATE: 05/31/2007 12:25:47 PM Paul, this last comment is unfair. The Irish have been integrated into the political system at least since the Boston, Chicago, and NYC machines have been established. How much money do black people routinely donate to political campaigns? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: kjoyc EMAIL: IP: 75.46.254.251 URL: DATE: 05/31/2007 01:57:45 PM 50 Cent's prosperity is nothing new in the Hip Hop community. What some don't understand is that many of the really successful rappers "do" have a public and private face. They sell what makes money in terms of their songs/lyrics, but they are not unlike many people that want to be financially successful. P. Diddy never planned for the bulk of his success to be from rap--it was an entry into the world of entertainment. Queen Latifah and L L Cool J did just the same. Some of these folks are simply sly as foxes! ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: checkyourfacts EMAIL: IP: 72.93.77.195 URL: DATE: 05/31/2007 03:03:34 PM check that 10% and 400 million figure. what's your source? glaceau wasn't even founded until 1996. sounds like your information source is incorrect. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Paul Butler EMAIL: IP: 24.193.203.84 URL: DATE: 05/31/2007 03:31:22 PM Thanks for the note, checkyourfacts. 50 reportedly purchased his interest in 2004. I've corrected the entry on the post. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Mel EMAIL: IP: 52.129.8.50 URL: DATE: 05/31/2007 04:23:08 PM Within the 50 Cent article, there is a link to an article discussing how Russell Simmons has gone around in interviews inflating the value of the Phat Farm brand. A CEO of a F500 company can't go around making cavalier statements about the worth of the company, whether he/she genuinely believed or had reason to believe the statments (or the facts underlying those statements). Such statements could affect the stock price...remember Enron? Does Simmons get a pass because Phat Farm was --I guess still is--owned by a private interest? He'd better watch it. Ditto for 50 if he is doing the same thing. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Mel EMAIL: IP: 52.129.8.50 URL: DATE: 05/31/2007 04:26:10 PM The link to the Russell Simmons/NYT piece is within the article hyperlinked in cnulan's post, above. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: hite EMAIL: IP: 71.183.252.239 URL: DATE: 05/31/2007 05:03:46 PM 50 cent DID NOT MAKE 400 MILLION on this sale. What company would give an endorser a 10% stake. Assuming that Glaceau has increased its worth 100% in the past 3 years, which is probably not the case, they would have given 50 cent a 200 million dollar stake at the time, for what? TO slap his name on a label? Does anyone realize how crazy this is? If Curtis Jackson indeed made that much money it would have been all over every business news outlet from here to Durban, South Africa. The only "news" outlet anyone can site for this is allhiphop.com, give me a break. 50 cent signed an endorsement deal that gave him a share of the profits from the sale of his branded vitamin water, as well as a fixed fee. He did NOT recieve a 10% stake in the whole damn company! ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ronnie B EMAIL: IP: 206.169.242.254 URL: DATE: 05/31/2007 05:04:34 PM Call me naive, but I would expect the conscious hiphop types to be supporting Obama. Conscious hip-hop types don't care one wit about Hillary Clinton as much as they care about sending a not-so-subtle message to Obama. That being that he ain't "Black Like Me". But see, Obama made his bones on the south side of Chicago; being of service to the very nigros currently sippin' the Obama haterade. More than any other candidate, Obama knows wassup. And just as game recognizes game, street recognizes street. So it's no surprise that some "conscious hip hop types" know that Obama can speak some nasty truths. Truths that a lot of folk don't want to hear. If I'm that kinda brotha, I'd avoid Obama too. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: BT EMAIL: IP: 71.126.173.208 URL: DATE: 05/31/2007 05:13:05 PM It's legal Mel, as long as the company is privately held OR, he's making atatements about "Valuation" and not false statements about revenue or profit in a publically held company. Valuation is highly subjective - and depending on the buyer, could be 6-10 times actual revenue. So Glaceau - a company with $450 M revenue last year, and a projected revenue of $650 million this year is "worth" $4.1 Billion... At least to Coke. Providing Coke Management doesn't "New Coke" the product... It's probably not a bad deal if they can push sales to $2-3 billion through their worldwide distribution network. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: rikyrah EMAIL: siport27@aol.com IP: 172.162.23.186 URL: DATE: 05/31/2007 07:58:46 PM Conscious hip-hop types don't care one wit about Hillary Clinton as much as they care about sending a not-so-subtle message to Obama. That being that he ain't "Black Like Me". 'Conscious Hip Hop' types aren't enough to fill a phonebooth. What you have are the willing participants in this Modern Day Minstrel Show known as Hip Hop, and to be honest, Obama is better off not being supported by the purveyors of poison to our community. So call me unimpressed if they say Obama isn't 'Black like them', considering that they are nothing but the Ultimate Sellouts, perpetrating that they're the Ultimate Field Negroes, all the while participating in the Global Dehumanization of us as a community, all the while collecting their 300 pieces of silver for their betrayal. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ed EMAIL: ed@dreamandhustle.com IP: 68.217.9.240 URL: http://www.dreamandhustle.com DATE: 05/31/2007 08:17:18 PM Paul, I rather your friend work with people of all races who share Obama vision and his leadership capability than brow-beat African-Americans to support him because he is Black. I realize some in the African-American blogosphere tend to show their blatant jealousy when they see a brother make millions off their investments or business deals because that brother is not one of the bougie types and happen to be from the streets. Look, Black people who made money back in the day did nothing but want every other Black person to look at them and be jealous. Materialism runs high in the African-American community because some of us are so focused on wanting to have other look at us with a sense of superiorty through things like a big house, big car or big salary job. I'm not one of them, I'm happy for people like 50 cents who took the risk and reap the reward. I hope I'm part of a new generation of African-Americans that want to see us all make it more than just one of us and ask people to at least apprecate Curtis for empowering himself. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: BBTPM EMAIL: j.smith@yahoo.com IP: 202.33.24.131 URL: DATE: 05/31/2007 11:36:49 PM The chances of a young black kid becoming a rich & famous whatever, is at best minuscule. Black youth should not be encouraged to become "self-exploiters" just to get rich. A more realistic and obtainable goal would be for them to get an education and pursue a career where they can make a positive and lasting impact in their community and the world. With that said, most Black “self-exploiters” do not and will not support any cause on a grand scale. Sure, they will organize a “hip-hop” street bash (totaling a few grand) for poor black kids every blue moon, but that is about the extent of what they will do for the Black community. They are usually not insightful or informed enough to engage in politics – the most they can do is perform at fundraisers, which are usually organized by “Bigger Fish”. Take note, Ben Affleck can speak intelligently in the political arena, on the other hand, Kanye West can only make simplistic statements like, “George Bush do not care about Black people”. Honestly, if Blacks are depending on Blacks to get in the White House, then they will be waiting a long, long time. Obama would do better by focusing on the Hispanic community. Bill Richardson’s campaign isn’t going very far and this leaves that community wide open for Obama. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Craka Smasha EMAIL: IP: 71.109.9.78 URL: DATE: 06/01/2007 12:08:51 AM Interesting...I bet you and the rest of those hillbillies you kick it with talk a mean game of politics between your incestuous relations with brothers/sisters and first cousins. And you thought cousin Bush worked at becoming that stoopid...check the family tree. The peckerwood strategy for success (stealing the whitehouse): nepotism, cronyism, and incest. Never fails. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Craka Smasha EMAIL: IP: 71.109.9.78 URL: DATE: 06/01/2007 12:21:51 AM And BTW, are the Bush twins, Barb and Jen, still suckin out of the 40 oz bottles or have they moved up to the crack pipe like daddy? I bet they get off into some real good political stuff after boofin' it up all night while listening to Kanye and 50 Cent. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Craka Smasha EMAIL: IP: 71.109.9.78 URL: DATE: 06/01/2007 12:23:25 AM And BTW, are the Bush twins, Barb and Jen, still suckin out of the 40 oz bottles or have they moved up to the crack pipe like daddy? I bet they get off into some real good political stuff after boofin' it up all night while listening to Kanye and 50 Cent. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: BBTPM EMAIL: j.smith@yahoo.com IP: 202.33.24.131 URL: DATE: 06/01/2007 03:22:44 AM Smasha: Intelligent response, good thing I didn't expect more. Read all of my post, then take a guess at my ethnicity. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Chauncey EMAIL: IP: 75.18.185.164 URL: DATE: 06/01/2007 04:25:58 AM this is really stupid. the suggestion that blacks should vote for blacks just because they're black is unbelievably stupid. such stupidity is what allowed clowns like al sharpton and jesse jackson to gain so popular. and if you're so ready to blindly support obama, then why aren't you supporting other blacks, like clarence thomas? i mean, both obama and thomas are black. oh wait. you don't support thomas because he doesn't agree with any of your nonsense. so i guess you really meant to say that: blacks should vote for blacks who share your views. this sounds like "voting on the issues" instead of "voting because he's black" to me. maybe you're not as stupid as i thought, but i doubt it. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: avid reader EMAIL: IP: 143.231.249.138 URL: DATE: 06/01/2007 11:20:07 AM African-Americans, in general, do not embrace Obama because a winning campaign would allow many white Americans to infer that racism is dead. I don’t believe that’s so, but I’m not stupid like most white Americans. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: CrispusAttucks EMAIL: IP: 216.91.14.2 URL: DATE: 06/01/2007 11:31:50 AM Anyone familiar with investment banking or private equity will tell you that this 50 cent story is ludacris. If not see the below from from Media Takeout.com: May 30, 2007. A few days ago a couple of news sources reported that Curtis "50 Cent" Jackson is set to make $400 million off the sale of Vitamin Water to Coca Cola. According to the reports, 50's windfall is a result of him owning 10% of Energy Brands, Inc - the parent company to the popular beverage Vitamin Water. Well MediaTakeOut.com has learned that those reports are complete fiction. In an exclusive interview, MediaTakeOut.com spoke with an investment banker familiar with the proposed Energy Brands acquisition. And according to the banker, 50's equity interest in the beverage company is far less than 10%. The banker explains, "50 Cent has a licensing agreement with Energy Brands which pays him a set fee and gives him a percentage of the sales from Formula 50 [The flavor specifically designed by 50]. He does not own a significant interest in the company ... The 10% number you hear is pure fiction." But don't feel too sorry for the multi-platinum selling rapper. According to the banker, 50 Cent's current deal with Energy Brands is worth many millions of dollars. Tells the Wall St. whiz, "[Energy Brands] has a number of celebrities who endorse their products, including Brain Urlacher, Shaquille O'Neill, and Allen Iverson. But the endorsement deal with 50 Cent is, by far, the most substantial." Energy Brands was founded in 1996. Since then it's become the market leader in the enhanced water arena. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: CrispusAttucks EMAIL: IP: 216.91.14.2 URL: DATE: 06/01/2007 11:34:48 AM Anyone familiar with investment banking or private equity will tell you that this 50 cent story is ludacris. If not apparent see the below from from Media Takeout.com: May 30, 2007. A few days ago a couple of news sources reported that Curtis "50 Cent" Jackson is set to make $400 million off the sale of Vitamin Water to Coca Cola. According to the reports, 50's windfall is a result of him owning 10% of Energy Brands, Inc - the parent company to the popular beverage Vitamin Water. Well MediaTakeOut.com has learned that those reports are complete fiction. In an exclusive interview, MediaTakeOut.com spoke with an investment banker familiar with the proposed Energy Brands acquisition. And according to the banker, 50's equity interest in the beverage company is far less than 10%. The banker explains, "50 Cent has a licensing agreement with Energy Brands which pays him a set fee and gives him a percentage of the sales from Formula 50 [The flavor specifically designed by 50]. He does not own a significant interest in the company ... The 10% number you hear is pure fiction." But don't feel too sorry for the multi-platinum selling rapper. According to the banker, 50 Cent's current deal with Energy Brands is worth many millions of dollars. Tells the Wall St. whiz, "[Energy Brands] has a number of celebrities who endorse their products, including Brain Urlacher, Shaquille O'Neill, and Allen Iverson. But the endorsement deal with 50 Cent is, by far, the most substantial." Energy Brands was founded in 1996. Since then it's become the market leader in the enhanced water arena. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: cnulan EMAIL: cnulan@oeiad.com IP: 65.69.77.51 URL: http://www.frontlinemultimedia.net DATE: 06/01/2007 11:41:01 AMRead all of my post, then take a guess at my ethnicity.fully assimilated..., ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: The Patriot EMAIL: IP: 74.238.152.146 URL: DATE: 06/04/2007 05:42:57 PM Chauncey: Clarence Thomas was elected not voted in, DAMN! I know people of other racese that have voted for their own just because: 1 He's like me, 2 I may or may not agree with all of his politics but it's good to see one of us in a high office. We blacks as a whole are so white washed, so self loathing it's not surprising that black folks are not supporting Obama, Sharpten, or Jackson. But let something serious happen to them and the first thing they will want is to call Al and or Jesse to help their Black Asses out! Just your typical Samobo attitude: Dont or wont do a damn thing for us and hate on those who do LOL! Crudan: Read all of my post, then take a guess at my ethnicity. fully assimilated..., Just think of him as a Borg-gro, LOL! Damn Sambo.... ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: The Patriot EMAIL: IP: 74.238.152.146 URL: DATE: 06/04/2007 05:43:57 PM Chauncey: Clarence Thomas was elected not voted in, DAMN! I know people of other racese that have voted for their own just because: 1 He's like me, 2 I may or may not agree with all of his politics but it's good to see one of us in a high office. We blacks as a whole are so white washed, so self loathing it's not surprising that black folks are not supporting Obama, Sharpten, or Jackson. But let something serious happen to them and the first thing they will want is to call Al and or Jesse to help their Black Asses out! Just your typical Samobo attitude: Dont or wont do a damn thing for us and hate on those who do LOL! Crudan: Read all of my post, then take a guess at my ethnicity. fully assimilated..., Just think of him as a Borg-gro, LOL! Damn Sambo.... ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: anonymous EMAIL: IP: 71.163.68.126 URL: DATE: 06/04/2007 10:59:06 PM Prof. Butler, Please let go of your fantasy that such a thing as conscious hip-hop types actually still exists. They are such a minority in the world of hip-hop that they are not even worth mentioning. You may have came up in the glory days of hip-hop when we had groups like Public Enemy, KRS-1, etc., but those days are looooong gone. Today its all about bling, b!itches, and beefing. You are confusing potential with reality. Nowadays, real ni$$as don't vote. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: BBTPM EMAIL: j.smith@yahoo.com IP: 202.33.24.131 URL: DATE: 06/04/2007 11:06:45 PM The Patriot is hostile. (Very typical) ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: The Patriot EMAIL: IP: 24.99.107.210 URL: DATE: 06/07/2007 08:17:10 AM BBTPM: "The Patriot is hostile." "(Very typical)" Yes "B" you're right,but only to Sambo minded people;) Say the words! "One People!" ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: The Patriot EMAIL: IP: 24.99.107.210 URL: DATE: 06/07/2007 08:22:41 AM BBTPM: "The Patriot is hostile." "(Very typical)" Yes "B" you're right,but only to Sambo minded people;) Say the words! "One People ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: anon EMAIL: IP: 4.155.66.80 URL: DATE: 06/07/2007 10:39:45 PM I am neutral on Obama. But I am not keen on the FIRST black president having to follow the WORST white president. Whoever gets the White House after GWB inherits an unwinnable war in 2 countries, MASSIVE national debt, Katrina, global warming, a huge health care crisis, and a fragile economy. And that doesn't even include the "stuff" that has been swept under the rug for the past 8 years. I hate to see Obama have to clean up behind GWB. It will be to easy to blame the "inexperienced" Black Man for the domino effects caused by the incompetent, self-serving plutocrats currently in power. Obama's nature seems to be so very conciliatory. He will try to take the "high road" and get eight-balled like Clinton. (Clinton tried that forgive and forget stuff on the Iran Contra affair under Reagan. The right wing then took the opportunity to relentlessly go after Bill and Co. [Iraq Confidential- Scott Ritter]) I want a white person to come behind BUSH...Clean up his mess. Empty his "chamberpot." ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: mr edosafen EMAIL: edosafen@yahoo.com IP: 41.205.171.65 URL: DATE: 06/09/2007 01:42:45 PM pls get back to on my maile address edosafen@yahoo.com in search of a wife and she must be a black caring women God fearing person? thanks M D EDOSMOTOWAYS NETHERLANDS AMSTADAM pls be quick be fast about it becos i well soon be living the my counrty , the natherlands to five diffrent nations for the supply of cars namelly usa canda iran south africa russia pls i need a good wie ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ohsu zjpotd EMAIL: vxobpw@mail.com IP: 71.244.86.163 URL: http://www.tnhwgdsby.hjlqbac.com DATE: 08/17/2007 05:58:12 AM msdv htsn uxqi brhfism olvyhrpi jeakf vjpicsxfg ----- -------- AUTHOR: pbutler TITLE: Teaching Children from Low Income Families STATUS: Publish ALLOW COMMENTS: 1 CONVERT BREAKS: tinymce ALLOW PINGS: 1 DATE: 05/24/2007 02:12:31 PM ----- BODY:
Everybody has a story about seeing a woman, often black and apparently poor, cussing at her child on the street, or disciplining the little one in some other inappropriate way. Is this how low-income parents are? According to Ruby Payne, a school consultant profiled in this Washington Post article, the answer is yes.
Payne thinks kids raised in poverty are different. They live in homes that are too noisy - the television is always on. They tend to laugh when they get in trouble at school. Poor kids are willing to work hard, but not so much for grades as for their teacher. They often don’t know how to properly address adults.
Poverty is extraordinary stressful, and children have got to bear some of the brunt. It would be unsurprising that this has an effect on all kind of measures of achievement, including school performance. One doesn’t want school teachers to be blind to this reality. So if, as Payne claims, low-income parents "beat around the bush" at parent-teacher conferences, teachers might take additional steps to make parents feel comfortable.
The problem with much "culture of poverty" analysis, however, is that it seems to blame poor people for being poor. See for example any of Bill Cosby’s infamous pronouncements. There is a need for interventions that recognize some of the debilitating effects of poverty without assigning blame to its victims. Poor parents, like parents of all income levels, want what’s best for their children.
----- EXTENDED BODY: ----- EXCERPT: ----- KEYWORDS: ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 204.155.172.17 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/24/2007 02:41:33 PM "Payne thinks kids raised in poverty are different. They live in homes that are too noisy - the television is always on. They tend to laugh when they get in trouble at school. Poor kids are willing to work hard, but not so much for grades as for their teacher. They often don’t know how to properly address adults." I haven't read the article yet, but what's his reasoning for well off kids who do this?! ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: bigmaconcampus EMAIL: IP: 208.27.111.121 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 02:55:58 PM prof. butler, i think at least part of the reason there's such a vibe of blame in "culture of poverty analysis" is because the typical response to that analysis is to claim that the parents are NOT to blame. which is what you do here. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: bigmaconcampus EMAIL: IP: 208.27.111.121 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 03:01:33 PM ETS, if you're implying that black working-class children are no different from white "well-off" children, you're not doing anyone a service, least of all black working-class children. there's a definite problem here. it's a difficult and sad situation. to pretend it doesn't exist so you can score a couple P.C. points is just sad. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 162.6.233.220 URL: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com DATE: 05/24/2007 03:07:55 PM The truth is black kids do terrible in school in the inner cities because their parents are not making them study, making them do homework, making them attend class, etc. The parents have low expectations of the kids often, because they never had much respect for education. if they did, 9/10 they would not be living in poverty. Culture is transmittable and passed down from generation to generation, if the parents don't respect educational achievement and see it as a road to upward mobility or do not even believe that is possible they will transfer this pathetic attitude to their children. Often black women are also the head of household with no father around. This means, if they are working, the kids are latch key kids often with no one enforcing schooling. I would not say "poor kids" are different. I would say "poor black inner city kids" are different. Poor white rural kids tend to do better than black poor kids in all school metrics on average. If you want to see a difference in culture listen to the country music station for 1/2 and hour. You will atleast here 2 songs about a man working hard, driving trucks, construction, whatever to take care of his family, struggling. Trying to provide a better standard of living for his WIFE. Then turn to the black radio station and every other song will be around a young black man trying to get money from rap, drug dealing, robbing so he can have sex with whores. If that does not tell you something about the environmental differences nothing will. Of and before someone screams bloody kneegrow murder and claims I'm defaming black people let me back this up... "One of the most disturbing, I think perhaps the most disturbing fact in our whole book is that black students coming from families earning over 70,000 are doing worse on their SATS, on average--it's always on average--than white students from families in the lowest income group. You want to cry hearing that figure. I mean, it's so terrible." www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/ interviews/thernstrom.html As far as kids in urban schools…I would agree but there is a trend here. The trend is simple. It doesn’t matter the income level or the how much the school spends on the kids, on average black kids typically do worse GPA wise than black students. There have been many studies on this and the results are always the same. Less parental involvement at home, less serious attitude toward education, not doing home work, not studying, not reading, etc. It does not matter if it is urban or in the suburbs. The urban kids just do worse, but no kids are doing better. This was broke down by several studies in McWhorter’s book “Loosing the Race”. I actually looked into a few of the studies he sited…he did not mis-state the findings. In States were people spend far less, like Utah, or where kid are quite poor on average (West Virginia) white kids still outscore black kids. www.nea.org/newsreleases/2003/nr030521.html nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/profile.asp "One of the most disturbing, I think perhaps the most disturbing fact in our whole book is that black students coming from families earning over 70,000 are doing worse on their SATS, on average--it's always on average--than white students from families in the lowest income group. You want to cry hearing that figure. I mean, it's so terrible." www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/interviews/thernstrom.html Poor people aren't victims just because they are poor. That is nuts. This is not "blame the victim" this is getting real with responsible adults who have children. There are not victims. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: rikyrah EMAIL: siport27@aol.com IP: 172.162.175.55 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 03:19:32 PM I worked for five years in inner city schools. I would say that there IS a culture in the inner city that does NOT value education. I will also say, that, despite everything, 99 times out of 100, that seperated the achievers from the non-achievers, was PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT. It's as true in the inner city as it is in the suburbs. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 162.6.233.220 URL: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com DATE: 05/24/2007 03:27:58 PM I love Bill Cosby: Remember he grew up in the hood Ol'skool and he puts it down: "Let them stay mad as long as they don't have good sense," he told Zahn. "I don't care what right-wing white people are thinking. ... How long you gonna whisper about a smallpox epidemic in your apartment building when bodies are coming out under the sheets?" "People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around. ... The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting," he said, addressing an audience of Washington VIPs. "Brown versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. ... They are standing on the corner and they can't speak English." Reminds me of my grandfather, but he would have put more curse word in it...like "Dem N1ggas be standin' down dere on dat corna sellin' dat poison, don't got no shame, and be jibber jabbin, can't nobody understand what them dumb m@thaf@ckas talkin' 'bout...d@man jive talkin' they call it, bunch of mess to me." :-) That is Grandpa Dragon Horse. You think Cosby is rough...no sir, Cosby is being polite. :-) ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 208.27.111.121 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 03:34:38 PM Dragon Horse, am I supposed to understand what the heck your grandfather was saying there? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 162.6.233.220 URL: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com DATE: 05/24/2007 03:36:54 PM Anonymous : Yes. :-) ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: John EMAIL: IP: 24.174.69.117 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 03:49:05 PM And as the New York Times reported awhile back, poor children also are spoken to far less as young children and aren't read to much at all, which leaves them with a severe deficit that is evident in kindergarten/first grade. By third grade, most teachers can predict whether or not a child will be successful in school based upon vocabulary/reading skills. Expecting the schools to make up this deficit -- considering that there is often little support for education in the home -- is close to impossible. More than ever before, we are becoming a society that is clearly divided into educational haves and have-nots, with a permanent uneducated underclass that cannot fend for itself. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: melissa EMAIL: IP: 72.81.134.7 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 04:00:30 PM I think that all U.S. kids suffer from parents who do not think that parenting is a profession. Countries like England support the profession of parenting by providing reasonable paid leave to allow parents and kids to learn and bond. Developmental science has shown that if you have not introduced some measure of morals, self-control, etc by the age of three, you have missed the boat. Expecting schools to do this with 30+ kids per class is ridiculous. We have the cash in this country to educate parents on what works. Where is the will? Our ADHD/ODD/anxious kids will not be able to sit still to learn the skills that will enable them to survive and compete worldwide. This is not the time to worry about what Whitey thinks, this is the time to save our kids. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: melissa EMAIL: IP: 72.81.134.7 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 04:04:05 PM I think that all U.S. kids suffer from parents who do not think that parenting is a profession. Countries like England support the profession of parenting by providing reasonable paid leave to allow parents and kids to learn and bond. Developmental science has shown that if you have not introduced some measure of morals, self-control, etc by the age of three, you have missed the boat. Expecting schools to do this with 30+ kids per class is ridiculous. We have the cash in this country to educate parents on what works. Where is the will? Our ADHD/ODD/anxious kids will not be able to sit still to learn the skills that will enable them to survive and compete worldwide. This is not the time to worry about what Whitey thinks, this is the time to save our kids. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: dareal EMAIL: IP: 134.186.243.134 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 04:59:19 PM I have 3 words crack rock, & weed, ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: V.J Dunn EMAIL: writer_val@hotmail.com IP: 209.161.220.158 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 07:22:00 PM The excuse is always the same, no money. It doesn't cause a dime for a parent interested in the education of their child to go to the public library to check out a book to read to them. I use to take my two kids to the Art Museum Of Detroit, and I swear the three of us would be the only black people, besides the security guards, looking at art. All the other visitors were white parents and kids from the suburbs because they certainly didn't live in the city. People we have to get real. Rich black people in America simply must get together (keep the media out of it, because it's none of their business) and create a charitable philanthpic organization to pay if they have to, black men and women of merit to get involved in the lives of these children. Pay young black women, (I know it's drastic) not to have children until they are at least in their mid-20's, have a good career, a skill that would afford them a decent living and please, please please have a steady, responsible man in their life willing to father a child. What is happening to us right now is beyond the pale. Russell simmons, Jay-Z, P. diddy and the rest, it's time to put some of those millions back into the inner-city to repair some of the damage you have caused. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Mannerly EMAIL: IP: 64.81.205.125 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 07:23:38 PM I live in Harlem, and the things some of these women do to their children is criminal. And much like their female counterparts, these women are scary. At the beauty parlor on the corner, children are routinely abused for MOVING. They are to sit, silently and motionless, while their mothers get their hair done. I saw one kid get slapped for literally twiddling his thumbs. Many of these women have been to college. But that doesn't make raising children alone any easier, really. Then you have the males, who are utterly reprehensible. Just yesterday, I sat in a car behind two men who parked, and turned up their obscene and offensive "music" to the point where it vibrated my molars. When asked to turn it down, he laughed and cocked his hand at me like a gun. This generation is lost lost lost. Those who believe that the parents aren't responsible are just as lost. And you can't tell them anything, because they'll kill you. I stopped a woman from punching a BABY on the subway, and took my life in my hands. I will surely be killed one day, for respectfully approaching one of these monsters. I blame black men. How could you?!? How could you make entertainment out of hate like you did?! And why did the rest of you stand by and claim it was "their reality? It BECAME reality. It didn't start out like that. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ed EMAIL: IP: 68.217.9.240 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 07:52:41 PM I saw one kid get slapped for literally twiddling his thumbs And you can't tell them anything, because they'll kill you. Only a bigot troll or a self-hater would post this nonsense and expect us to take the bait. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ed EMAIL: IP: 68.217.9.240 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 07:59:41 PM They live in homes that are too noisy - the television is always on. So do middle class kids who have ipods, cell phones, nintendo and skating around in heelies. They tend to laugh when they get in trouble at school. Middle class kids do the same because they know their parents are too busy working to care about what trouble their kid get into. Poor kids are willing to work hard, but not so much for grades as for their teacher. They often don’t know how to properly address adults. This is all kids in America, thanks to ADD. Bottom line, stereotyping is wrong and harmful, especially to the poor kids that are out there striving to be great citizens and contributors to this society. The sad part is the generation of hard working poor Latino immigrants and their kids will soon grow up to take over the middle class American segment while we hear beating up on the stereotype poor Black kid in the hoodie... ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Rita Morris EMAIL: IP: 209.161.220.158 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 08:14:39 PM Ed, we have to face the truth and not retaliate against those amongst us who are willing to tell the truth even when it hurts us to hear it. It is true that the immigrants are going to past us by, they are taking advantage of the things we refuse to take advantage of such as free education. We have no one to blame but ourselves and the leftish-liberal activists and organizations that have been telling us for the last fifty years that it is always someone else's fault and that we will forever be the helpless victims of this world. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Rita Morris EMAIL: IP: 209.161.220.158 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 08:15:58 PM Ed, we have to face the truth and not retaliate against those amongst us who are willing to tell the truth even when it hurts us to hear it. It is true that the immigrants are going to past us by, they are taking advantage of the things we refuse to take advantage of such as free education. We have no one to blame but ourselves and the leftish-liberal activists and organizations that have been telling us for the last fifty years that it is always someone else's fault and that we will forever be the helpless victims of this world. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Rita Morris EMAIL: IP: 209.161.220.158 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 08:18:20 PM Ed, we have to face the truth and not retaliate against those amongst us who are willing to tell the truth even when it hurts us to hear it. It is true that the immigrants are going to past us by, they are taking advantage of the things we refuse to take advantage of such as free education. We have no one to blame but ourselves and the leftish-liberal activists and organizations that have been telling us for the last fifty years that it is always someone else's fault and that we will forever be the helpless victims of this world. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 204.155.172.17 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/24/2007 08:25:56 PM bigmaconcampus - Fall back. This is not about being PC. I meant exactly what I posted. I know plenty of kids who grew up poor who don't have any of these traits and plent of kids who grew up well-off who do. What about these issues is rooted in poverty if children who are not poor have the same issues and if all poor children don't? If it is so simple (i.e. poverty is the reason), then he - or you - should be able to explain it. I'm seriously interested. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 204.155.172.17 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/24/2007 08:27:32 PM bigmaconcampus - Fall back. This is not about being PC. I meant exactly what I posted. I know plenty of kids who grew up poor who don't have any of these traits and plent of kids who grew up well-off who do. What about these issues is rooted in poverty if children who are not poor have the same issues and if all poor children don't? If it is so simple (i.e. poverty is the reason), then he - or you - should be able to explain it. I'm seriously interested. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 204.155.172.17 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/24/2007 08:28:13 PM bigmaconcampus - Fall back. This is not about being PC. I meant exactly what I posted. I know plenty of kids who grew up poor who don't have any of these traits and plent of kids who grew up well-off who do. What about these issues is rooted in poverty if children who are not poor have the same issues and if all poor children don't? If it is so simple (i.e. poverty is the reason), then he - or you - should be able to explain it. I'm seriously interested. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 204.155.172.17 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/24/2007 08:31:20 PM What about the schools? The teachers who don't care and set kids' expectations low? What about the school systems that inadequately educate our kids and fail to provide them with opportunities that will allow them to transcend their situations? Am I the only one that is not buying into the individualistic mentality that says it's all the parents?! ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ed EMAIL: IP: 68.217.9.240 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 08:33:30 PM Ed, we have to face the truth and not retaliate against those amongst us who are willing to tell the truth even when it hurts us to hear it. That's a popular bigot/self-hating argument. The problem with it is those that say don't know the truth, just stereotypes. Please tell us from this article what is truth or just a one-person observation. We have no one to blame but ourselves and the leftish-liberal... The song "True Colors" started playing in my head when I read that one... ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 08:34:39 PM ETS: The issue is not do well off kids have the same traits. The issue is in what percentage of the population and who has a bigger safety net to fall back on. I would submit that poor urban black children (and many Hispanic groups) have more of these traits than their middle and upperclass counterparts and when they do "fall down" they have less of a safety net to bounce back from. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 204.155.172.17 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/24/2007 08:43:27 PM Why is it that anytime somebody refuses to buy into the all black kids have gone down the drain bs, that he's not "looking at the real issue." Why do some of you insist on beliefing the hype that blacks are responsible for all of their problems? I'm not on some "blame the white man" type stuff. I just think we need to look at the REAL issues HOLISTICALLY! ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 08:45:06 PM ETS: The issue is not do well off kids have the same traits. The issue is in what percentage of the population and who has a bigger safety net to fall back on. I would submit that poor urban black children (and many Hispanic groups) have more of these traits than their middle and upperclass counterparts and when they do "fall down" they have less of a safety net to bounce back from. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 204.155.172.17 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/24/2007 08:50:22 PM Anonymous - I will not argue with that. I'm just asking that if poverty is the cause of these problems. Then why do these problems exist in kids who are not poor? I think it's a fair question. I'm not saying he's wrong. I would just be interested in more thorough research. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 08:59:13 PM ETS: My take is that poverty does not causes these problems. It is the other way around. People who exibit these problems are more likely to be poor. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ed EMAIL: IP: 68.217.9.240 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 09:06:59 PM ETS "Anonymous" is doing nothing but attacking behind a veil of being anonymous. You are right. I would argue these problem exist more in the middle class communities with the exception the middle class do a better job of covering up "not falling back on" their children ills. I grew up poor and seen way too many...way too many well off children of middle class families grow up to be mediorce, marginal potheads who are just settlin. And I see way too many poor kids worldwide, not just USA but worldwide who are working hard to get a piece of that global economy coming down the pipes. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 24.251.12.146 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/24/2007 09:46:13 PM "People who exibit these problems are more likely to be poor." Based off of what? Says who? Where are the stats? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Mannerly EMAIL: IP: 64.81.205.125 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 09:51:55 PM You don't have to believe me. But I am not lying, and I do not hate myself or my race. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Craka Smasha EMAIL: IP: 71.109.49.77 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 10:33:48 PM Thoughtless ramblings of a self-hating moron: "...on average black kids typically do worse GPA wise than black students." -Dracoon Horse (3:07pm) ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Craka Smasha EMAIL: IP: 71.109.49.77 URL: DATE: 05/24/2007 10:46:14 PM Thoughtless ramblings of a self-hating moron: "...on average black kids typically do worse GPA wise than black students." -Dracoon Horse (3:07pm) ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: cnulan EMAIL: cnulan@oeiad.com IP: 65.69.77.51 URL: http://www.frontlinemultimedia.net DATE: 05/25/2007 04:01:11 AMWhat we need in my opinion is thought and practices, as personified by Dr. Vernon Johns as described by Taylor Branch, “a kind of hybrid of the schools of thought that had been contending among Negroes since the Civil War. Like Booker T. Washington, he espoused hard, humbling work in basic trades, as opposed to W.E.B. Du Bois’s ‘talented tenth’ strategy… Like Du Bois and Frederick Douglass, Johns advocated a simultaneous campaign for full political rights. He rejected as demeaning and foolhardy Washington’s accomodationist strategy of offering to trade political rights for economic ones. Like Du Bois, he believed fiercely in the highest standards of scholarship and never suffered fools at all, much less gladly. But like Washington, he believed that the dignity and security of a people derived from its masses, and without stability and character in the masses an elite could live above them only in fantasy.” Dr. Du Bois was hardly as simply minded integrationist. In the July, 1935 edition of the Journal of Negro Education, Dr. Du Bois wrote an article titled “Does The Negro Need Separate Schools?” These are some of his comments: "And the answer, to my mind, is perfectly clear. They are needed just so far as they are necessary for the proper education of the Negro race. The proper education of any people includes sympathetic touch between teacher and pupil; knowledge on the part of the teacher, not simply of the individual taught, but of his surroundings and background, and the history of his class and group… If the public schools of Atlanta, Nashville, New Orleans, and Jacksonville were thrown open to all races tomorrow, the education that colored children would get in them would be worse than pitiable. It would not be education. And in the same way, there are many public schools in the North where Negroes are admitted and tolerated, but they are not educated; they are crucified. Under such circumstances, there is no room for argument as to whether the Negro needs separate schools or not. The plain fact faces us that either he will have separate schools or he will not be educated. Thus, instead of our schools being simply separate schools, forced on us by grim necessity, they can become centers of a new and beautiful effort at human education, which may easily lead and guide the world in many important and valuable aspects. It is for this reason that when are schools are separate, the control of the teaching force, the expenditure of money, the choice of textbooks, the discipline and other administrative matters of the sort ought, also, to come into our hands, and be incessantly demanded and guarded." Such were the ideas of William Du Bois in 1935. They could have just as easily been the Black Nationalist ideas of Malcolm X in 1964 or the Afrikan-centered ideas of Asa Hilliard today.Makheru dropped wisdom at Michael Fisher's blog apropo to this topic. Guess he got tired of being drowned out by the incessant braying of kneegrowdamning asses over here. You could hardly blame the brother..., ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: cnulan EMAIL: cnulan@oeiad.com IP: 65.69.77.51 URL: http://www.frontlinemultimedia.net DATE: 05/25/2007 04:11:46 AM
Poverty is extraordinary stressful, and children have got to bear some of the brunt. It would be unsurprising that this has an effect on all kind of measures of achievement, including school performance. One doesn’t want school teachers to be blind to this reality. So if, as Payne claims, low-income parents "beat around the bush" at parent-teacher conferences, teachers might take additional steps to make parents feel comfortable.Dubois point from 1935 bears repeating, particularly in the midst of the hyperassimilated, colonialist sounding braying, "woe is me, I'm so embarrassed about bad acting poor Black kids and how bad they make me look to white folks" which is where most of the Cosby-ite demagoguery emanates from. What insanity. Poor and dysfunctional white kids outnumber poor Black kids nearly 3 to 1, but I've yet to see white folks losing their minds in embarrassment over the travails of their collective intractable poverty and cultural backwardness.
Dr. Du Bois was hardly as simply minded integrationist. In the July, 1935 edition of the Journal of Negro Education, Dr. Du Bois wrote an article titled “Does The Negro Need Separate Schools?” These are some of his comments: "And the answer, to my mind, is perfectly clear. They are needed just so far as they are necessary for the proper education of the Negro race. The proper education of any people includes sympathetic touch between teacher and pupil; knowledge on the part of the teacher, not simply of the individual taught, but of his surroundings and background, and the history of his class and group… If the public schools of Atlanta, Nashville, New Orleans, and Jacksonville were thrown open to all races tomorrow, the education that colored children would get in them would be worse than pitiable. It would not be education. And in the same way, there are many public schools in the North where Negroes are admitted and tolerated, but they are not educated; they are crucified.----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 162.6.233.47 URL: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com DATE: 05/25/2007 08:36:37 AM Cnulan: As far as Vernon Johns...uhm most of these kids we are speaking about in 2007 go to defacto all black, or at least over 75% black schools. The rest being Hispanics or something very few whites. "Black kids nearly 3 to 1, but I've yet to see white folks losing their minds in embarrassment over the travails of their collective intractable poverty and cultural backwardness." White people degrade poor whites all the time as "crackers", "trailer part trash", 'rednecks", "hillbillies" they even make TV shows making fun of these people..."Beverly Hillbillies", "King of the Hill", etc. The issue is not is not absolute numbers, you know better than that. The issue is percentage of population. About 7% of whites are poor. So that means less than 1/10 whites. About 20% of blacks are poor, 1/5 of us. Big difference. Most poor whites live scattered in sparsely populated rural areas or small cities, poor blacks are crowded in with most other blacks who live in urban areas...so the average white person does not see poor whites often. The average black person likely does. Anyway, going back to the "separate school" thing. Since many poor blacks (if not the majority) already go to "segregated schools" I would assume the issue is not actually bodies in the class, but what the children are being taught in the class. What is it that poor blacks need to be taught different to make them productive in school (if the school board was also controlled by blacks, which in many cities it is anyway). In fact I would argue, that cities like Detroit and DC, that have majority black populations, black mayors, black police chiefs, black school boards, etc have the WORSE educational achievement of blacks in the country. I can easily support this. So I'm not sure what you are getting at. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 162.6.233.47 URL: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com DATE: 05/25/2007 08:55:20 AM Cnulan: Another question. I graduated from high school in 1995, I know you are a bit older. Did you go to a integrated high school. Have you had a chance to compare your experience in high school with someone who went to an integrated high school from a later generation than you? What you are talking about as far as "black students being crucified" I have never seen, experienced, or heard other black people like me talk about. Not to say there was no racist teachers...but the general experience was just not like that. My experience was actually the opposite. I found many white teachers to be condescending. If a black student was bright and wanting to learn and had a positive attitude white folks would go nuts and go out of their way to coddle them, but not in a "nurturing way" it was almost in a way that was like "oh you poor negro, you are black and oppressed, but bright, we are going to help you because we know you are so downtrodden" and you could tell that is how they though from how they talked to you...but they would go out of their way to get you into higher level classes, AP courses...tell you you are "well spoken"...a white guy of similar aptitude did not get this treatment, trust me. As i got older I reflected on this more and it bothered me. I think part of it is that white people thought they were "helping" but they did it from the point of view that we were inferior (because they saw all blacks as victims), white guilt played into this, also they wanted to look like they were "a friend to the negro" and not racist (that is realy important to white people not to appear publically racist so they often overcompensate). Anyway that was my experience. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Nana EMAIL: IP: 71.249.189.209 URL: DATE: 05/25/2007 11:23:33 AM The problem with some folks here is that they don’t see our children with any emotional intelligence – sad. “We have placed them in isolation because we don’t want you to contaminate our own schools. It sends a destructive message for young blacks, and they recognize it very well. One teenager in Harlem said to me, “It’s like if they don’t have room for something and don’t know how to throw it out they put it back in the garage.” I said, “Is that how you feel?” She said, “That’s exactly how I feel.” “People are shaped by their environment and culture. Some who claim to be liberal and open about race issues are sometimes themselves the leading bigots in the room. They don't realize it but it is apparent to others. Jonanthan Kozol Schools today are as segregated as before Brown v. Board of Education. The problem is now we blame the parents and the children for the mess, instead of consciously correcting our community schools. There are many African-American schools doing quite well – chartered black conscious schools. The problem is that the nation and those who want to brow beat our children want to make all the excuses and take it off the real enemy the apathy of the American government. http://www.weac.org/resource/may96/myths.htm “The United States has the highest percentage of 24 year olds in the world graduating from a four year college. Its colleges produce the highest percentage of technical degrees and it has the most gender-balanced field of degree recipients (Carson, et al., p.287).” “Despite the evidence, public opinion continues to rely on the SAT score as an indicator of school quality. Several reasons may explain this misplaced emphasis. Since 40% of American students take the SAT and it is an exam of high personal stakes (college admission), families tend to view the results as a proxy of public school quality rather than as an estimate of potential student success in college.” ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 162.6.233.47 URL: DATE: 05/25/2007 11:52:54 AM “A writer's material is controlled by publishers who think of the Negro as picturesque….There is an over-simplification of the Negro. He is either pictured by the conservatives as happy, picking his banjo, or by the so-called liberals as low, miserable, and crying. The Negro's life is neither of these. Rather, it is in-between and above and below these pictures.” — Zora Neale Hurston (1891-1960), libertarian anthropologist and author, in an interview with the New York Amsterdam News ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Trula EMAIL: trulamama@gmail.com IP: 66.213.111.107 URL: http://mspmedia.net/pgb.html DATE: 05/25/2007 01:22:06 PM This is a great topic and discussion on a much needed site. I have linked your site to mine, Personal Growth for Black People. I think the ultimate solution to the education problem is on us, black people. It is a tad unreasonable to expect white people to solve this problem. Black people came out of slavery with such a burning desire to learn. I wonder what happened to us. How can we solve this, what can individual educated black people do to help? In addition to my blog, which I plan to become a great online resource for blakc development, I am seriously considering becoming a teacher in an urban school district. I think black people like me are a big part of the problem...we live and/or work in suburbs, we don't reach out and actively try to help black people who are disadvantaged. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 162.6.233.47 URL: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com DATE: 05/25/2007 01:23:00 PM Nana said: "The problem is that the nation and those who want to brow beat our children want to make all the excuses and take it off the real enemy the apathy of the American government." okay so what can government do or do better? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 162.6.233.47 URL: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com DATE: 05/25/2007 01:25:11 PM Nana: One comment about your post. You mentioned charter schools doing well. I would agree. My take on that is "self selection bias", kids in charter schools are more motivated to learn or have parents that take a high interest in their education. I would say those kids are already above average in motivation if not intelligence. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: bigmaconcampus EMAIL: IP: 208.27.111.121 URL: DATE: 05/25/2007 01:33:06 PM ETS -- why is it that some people can't understand that the claim that "group X has a problem" is not refuted by a counterclaim that some members of group X don't have that problem, or that some members of group Y have that problem, too? Faced with evidence that black Americans have a higher-than-average illiteracy rate, is your first impulse to think about how to solve that problem, or to claim that you know lots of black people who are highly literate? (Bear in mind that the existence of the problem may be used as justification for massive government spending.) "bigmaconcampus - Fall back. This is not about being PC. I meant exactly what I posted. I know plenty of kids who grew up poor who don't have any of these traits and plent of kids who grew up well-off who do." ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: bigmaconcampus EMAIL: IP: 208.27.111.121 URL: DATE: 05/25/2007 01:41:58 PM the focus on stereotyping as a primary cause of black americans' problems is so jurassic. blacks need social services on a large scale. you don't help anyone by pretending they don't. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Naomii EMAIL: drane8@msn.com IP: 4.158.12.91 URL: DATE: 05/25/2007 01:56:14 PM First let’s defined what the word poverty means, a shortage, lack of, destitution. Not all parents and children living in poverty are the same and should not be classified together. Our society can not and should not defined poverty basically on income, but other life conditions such as manners and ethics. In respect to Ruby Payne’s statement, children whether rich or poor tend to mimic their parents. Of course, children raised in poverty areas are different because of their environmental surrounding. However, whose to say that the rich live in quiet homes where their TVs are not on, their children are not chatting on the Internet, nor are they listening to loud stereo music. Just because one has money don’t mean that they have manners. As for the laughing when getting in trouble in school, preferable laughter is better than getting angry and pulling out a gun and shooting up the class. In all actuality how many children really know how to address adults? Instead of Ruby Payne, evaluating the children, maybe Payne should be evaluated in respect to analyzing school children. Who’s the blame? Just, maybe school consultants who analyze and write reports for schools and society according to their own beliefs and not reality and place labeling on our children. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: bigmaconcampus EMAIL: IP: 208.27.111.121 URL: DATE: 05/25/2007 02:01:21 PM that's right, naomii, blacks are in no worse shape than any other group in america. it's all the fault of school consultants who label the working-class black kids. these kids are highly motivated and value education. they're ahead of the curve by the time they enter kindergarten because their parents put their children's intellectual and emotional development above anything else. their parents read to them constantly, so they have great language skills, too. and they almost always have two parents living in the same home. i have to admit i'm at a bit of a loss about why they tend to underperform every other ethnic group in school, though. it must be because they were labeled. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 162.6.233.47 URL: DATE: 05/25/2007 02:10:50 PM bigmanoncampus: dammit don't you understand the white man sneaks into the projects impregnates young black women with sperm from black men, he infects people with HIV, brainwashes black children in mass not to learn. The white man is powerful, don't underestimate the power of the white man, he is God on the lips of the black man. LOL ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Nana EMAIL: IP: 71.249.189.209 URL: DATE: 05/25/2007 02:13:53 PM http://www.npc.umich.edu/publications/workingpaper06/paper10/working_paper06-10.pdf One of the biggest problem here is the isolation of the poor from the middle class. In our community this was not the tradition as it is now. Ergo: "It requires focusing less on individuals and more on structures and institutions, including the cultural and social mechanisms that maintain classification systems that demarcate the poor from 'us' Poverty is a part of human society; the problem is the callousness and apathy of this society, has made it even worst given the knowledge of the day. For a Christian nation, it has damn itself. Have a safe and chilled weakend ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Nana EMAIL: IP: 71.249.189.209 URL: DATE: 05/25/2007 02:39:05 PM DH No the "public" charter schools I speak of go beyond class and income. Teach pride, history and support stuff like this. http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2084331,00.html One of the best is in Harlem - all girls, learning French, another is in Phila. run by some sharp women. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 204.155.172.17 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/25/2007 05:06:41 PM Bigman - How can you begin to address a problem properly without putting it in context? Acting like something is an isolated impoverished black issue without looking at other groups is bound to produce a poor result, because you probably aren't even looking at the whole picture. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/25/2007 08:02:50 PM In an editorial emailed to Booker Rising by his office, the chairman of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights and conservative Republican argues that race matters, but knowledge and family matter more in America: If we could wave a magic wand and do away with discrimination overnight, racial disparities would, nevertheless, still exist. Consequently, focusing on race doesn't address the fundamental problems facing many African-Americans today. Assuming the use of racial preferences passes constitutional muster and states do not continue to ban racial preference policies, they may help some Blacks. But if you are a poor Black man with a 4th-grade reading level and three felony convictions, a program that provides a seat in a college or a set aside contract won't help you. Racial preferences help those Blacks who have "middle class" values. But we have an obligation to ensure that all of us have an opportunity to thrive in the 21st century, not just the Black middle and upper classes. We need affirmative action programs that increase the productive capacities of the beneficiaries. We need educational enrichment programs for children. We need affirmative action programs that teach parents what their children should know in various grades so that these parents can assess how well their schools are educating their children. Nine out of 10 start-up businesses fail within the first five years. Many of these businesses fail because the owners lacked critical information regarding how a business should be run, not because of their race. In addition to knowledge, it is imperative that we acknowledge the harm done to the Black family and work to heal this wound. After the Civil War, Black men and women — clothed in rags and with empty bellies — walked the dirt roads of the South, searching for loved ones who had been sold to other plantations during slavery. This deep commitment to family kept us whole and helped us endure slavery and the Jim Crow era. After migrating to big cities, this part of our heritage began to fade. Today, about 70 percent of our children are born into homes where their mother and father are not married. Race matters, but in the 21st century, the health of families matters more. Recently Kay Hymowitz, a contributing editor at "City Journal", made the following observation: "[T]he truth is that we are now a two-family nation, separate and unequal — one thriving and intact, and the other struggling, broken and far too often African-American." For quite some time we have known the importance of family in determining a child's opportunities in life. In 1950, the noted Black sociologist E. Franklin Frazier told us. And in the 1970s, the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan also urged the nation to grapple with the fragile state of the Black family. "At the heart of the deterioration of the fabric of Negro society is the deterioration of the Negro family, Senator Moynihan stated. "It is the fundamental source of the weakness of the Negro community at the present time. But...unless this damage is repaired, all the effort to end discrimination and poverty and injustice will come too little (emphasis added). Today, the fragile state of our families lowers our incomes, impends our ability to educate our children and results in too many young Black men taking paths that lead to prison. Until we acknowledge the importance of strong families and the likely consequences that result from weak families, it is likely that the racial disparities that surround us will become permanent fixtures of our society. And focusing on race and racial preferences will not solve the problem. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: bigmaconcampus EMAIL: IP: 69.86.156.240 URL: DATE: 05/25/2007 10:29:31 PM ETS -- I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm making the really obvious point that there's a large black underclass that is not equipped to compete in America. I'm not a parent who's part of that underclass, so I can't help by trying to build my child's self-esteem, stopping bringing boyfriends into the home who are horrible role models, cutting down on television and reading to my children more, cutting out junk food from my child's diet, drilling into my child's mind that there is nothing more important than an education, etc. I can only advocate for increased social services for these people, and donate what I'm able to afford. Your obsession with getting "the context" right, I don't even know what that means. It sounds like this is an academic matter to you. Your house is on fire, are you going to call the fire department or are you going to consider the context in which your house is on fire? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: bigmaconcampus EMAIL: IP: 69.86.156.240 URL: DATE: 05/25/2007 10:39:20 PM ETS, your general line of inquiry reminds me of a child who's been scolded by his parents for doing something, and who responds by telling his parents that someone else's parents let him do it. what's the point of your comparisons? specifically, i mean. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Michael Fisher EMAIL: assaultonblacksanity@gmail.com IP: 166.214.32.12 URL: http://assaultonblacksanity.blogspot.com DATE: 05/25/2007 11:16:41 PM I used to be a substitute teacher in the Bronx and Harlem and then a regular teacher at JHS 117 in the Bronx in 1986-1989 or so. I had just come back from completing law school in Europe and so at the time I lived with my Grandma in the Sedgwig project on 174th and University. So, basically, I was living among my students. While it was true that you had a problem already then with parents not getting involved in the school you also had th eproblem of complet, utter teacher apathy and disdain. Give you an example. Since I was one of the few (maybe only? I'm trying to recall another black male teacher) black male teachers at the school the principal assigned me a special ed class. Now. They required now lessons plan from me, they GAVE ME NO BOOKS, no instructions, nothing. No one asked what and how I was teaching anything. The kids in th especuial ed class were among some of the BRIGHTEST kids out there. Th eproblem was that they were bright enough to rebell against this s**t. In any case, I decided that I would teach them math, (algebra) and history, including economics. So what, no one gave me any instructions. So first I asked for some math books. There were none available. No where. I happened upon a closet in a teacher's lounge, and opende it. lo and behold it had tons of algebra books in it. unfortunately DATED FROM THE SIXTIES. And STILL BRAND NEW. Never used. So, though these books were quite a bit outdated, I used them. Firts they resited, but then after I told them that "Mathematics is Natural to the Black Man" (five percenter lingo) and did the Allah "arm-leg-leg-arm-head" thing, the kids took to algebra like fish to water. Same with my history thing. So. Yes, I had problems motivating the parents at times. (I used to go to their houses, my Jewish fello teachers thought I was nuts - but f**k, this was MY neighborhood). But, overall, poor black kids, whether of a US or a hispanic caribean background (i.e. Boricuas etc) want to learn if you do it right. Besides, as John Henrik Clarke once said: As long as there is a library around, ther is no excuse not to be educated. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Michael Fisher EMAIL: IP: 166.214.32.12 URL: http://assaultonblacksanity.blogspot.com DATE: 05/25/2007 11:19:43 PM As an aside. I could spell and type better then... ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: The Angry Independent EMAIL: Websteru2006@yahoo.com IP: 75.132.119.88 URL: http://mirroronamerica.blogspot.com/ DATE: 05/26/2007 01:18:16 AM I just posted a similar story. Take a look at the Policy Bridge report. The poverty argument is at the least, overblown... It's a tired argument. How long are Black folks going to use that as an excuse? Link: http://mirroronamerica.blogspot.com/2007/05/rap-on-culture-why-cosby-was-right.html ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Chauncey EMAIL: IP: 169.230.100.245 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 04:18:45 AM blacks need to act more like jews. jews are really good at sticking together and helping each other. blacks are the exact opposite: they'd rather kill each other than help each other, and when they're not killing each other, they're killing someone else. this is a sad cycle, but unfortunately it will never change. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 24.251.12.146 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/26/2007 09:09:34 AM Bigman - Congrats on being such a successful parent. But your analogy was terribly flawed. I am not excusing poor behavior/decision making at all. I can't even begin to form an analogy based off of the one you provided because it's so far off from what I was originally saying. But I digress ... My whole argument suggests that these issues are not "poor people's" issues. They are society's issues and putting the blame solely on poor people for their state is unacceptable. I am a huge advocate of individual responsibility but not holding institutions accountable who contribute to the state of America's poor blacks is unacceptable. It's not about being academic, it's about being comprehensive. Beating up on the already down without beating up those who put them down is not helping anyone. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com DATE: 05/26/2007 09:16:04 AM No one saves us but ourselves, No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path, But Buddhas clearly show the way.The Dhammapada, 165. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ed EMAIL: ed@dreamandhustle.com IP: 68.217.9.240 URL: http://www.dreamandhustle.com DATE: 05/26/2007 09:48:03 AM I read the Washington Post article and visited Ruby Payne web site and this is nothing more than the commercialized business of selling negative stereotypes for profit. First, I'm dismayed it was not disclosed Ruby Payne was White which her racial makeup does matter in this context -- she could be nothing more than a subtle bigot pandering to bigots. I do not believe Ruby has the best interest of the poor students at heart and is more interested into selling to a market of teachers and others who want to believe the negative things they hear about poor kids. Many people who may have seen the 2nd season of "The Wire" on HBO (comes on Saturday night) saw the part where the "consultants" are getting money to throw these conferences, studies and seminars at these schools, wasting our taxes that could be spent on the students. Me or you can create our own consultancy on how to deal with kids who have to wear Payless instead of Nikes to school and get the same funding Ruby get. She should be dismissed as nothing more than an opportunist who seek to leech funds from school systems to line her own pockets with her propaganda BS. I say this once before here and I say it again - worry about your iPod playstation xbox zoloft middle-class teenagers more than the poor kids. The poor kids don't take nothing for granted nor feel entitled and actually know they have to work to get ahead.... ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Mannerly EMAIL: IP: 64.81.205.125 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 10:30:20 AM Ed, the way you namecall and dismiss everyone who doesn't share your opinion is indicative of your deprived background. But you successfully drowned a much-needed conversation. Once again, the deprived win their deprivation. Are you pleased Ed? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Trula EMAIL: trulamama@gmail.com IP: 76.188.98.106 URL: http://mspmedia.net/pgb.html DATE: 05/26/2007 11:30:29 AM ETS wrote: Beating up on the already down without beating up those who put them down is not helping anyone. But how is beating up on those who put them down helping anyone?? I don't understand...do you think that by doing so, racist white will have a change of heart and dismantle a system of discrimantion that has existed for centuries? I am not saying that I don't think that racism, prejudice, and discrimination will last forever. I am saying that expecting the people who perpetuate this after the laws have changed is sort of a waste of our time. It also does not address what we are doing to ourselves; what went wrong in black american culture that allowed a pervasive disdain for education to spring up and persist. Until we do that and take responsibility for it nothing will change. I also don't think bringing up accountability and self-responsibilty to impoversihed blacks is 'beating them up'. I consider it to be spreading the knowledge, sharing what I know about education and how it has had an impact on my life. Often times among black people who are disadvantaged, it isn't because they are willing know-nothings or deliberately want their children to fail in school. Sometimes it is simply because they don't know what to do. Because the educated among us are so insistent on defending ebonics or insistent that black children who fail have just been labeled or whatever, that we don't even bother talking to the people who need our help the most. I've been extremely poor, I've lived in the hood, I've had my kids in 'hood'schools. I've talked to other black parents in these schools, and the things that the middle class take for granted and do for their children, poor and/or uneducated blacks often just don't know to do or how to do. Like reading to their kids every night when they are pre-schoolers or teaching them the alphabet. The children of educated people come to kindergarten knowing their colors, knowing basic shapes, knowing how to count, knowing the alphabet, sometimes even already knowing how to read. It's not that the children of the poor don't want their kids to know this stuff, it's that they think the school is going to teach them...no one ever told them about how to prepare a child for school so that they come with the very basics of education already in their minds. Instead of preaching about what white folks did to cause this dynamic in our community, why aren't we preaching about how we can change it? Why aren't we spreading the word to our fellow black people who are at a disadvantage because of economics of their own poor education about how to prepare their children for education in the school system? How to support and help their children do well in school? Is it perhaps because some of us truly believe that whites ultimately control our behavior? that they control what we do or don't do? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Trula EMAIL: trulamama@gmail.com IP: 76.188.98.106 URL: http://mspmedia.net/pgb.html DATE: 05/26/2007 11:30:31 AM ETS wrote: Beating up on the already down without beating up those who put them down is not helping anyone. But how is beating up on those who put them down helping anyone?? I don't understand...do you think that by doing so, racist white will have a change of heart and dismantle a system of discrimantion that has existed for centuries? I am not saying that I don't think that racism, prejudice, and discrimination will last forever. I am saying that expecting the people who perpetuate this after the laws have changed is sort of a waste of our time. It also does not address what we are doing to ourselves; what went wrong in black american culture that allowed a pervasive disdain for education to spring up and persist. Until we do that and take responsibility for it nothing will change. I also don't think bringing up accountability and self-responsibilty to impoversihed blacks is 'beating them up'. I consider it to be spreading the knowledge, sharing what I know about education and how it has had an impact on my life. Often times among black people who are disadvantaged, it isn't because they are willing know-nothings or deliberately want their children to fail in school. Sometimes it is simply because they don't know what to do. Because the educated among us are so insistent on defending ebonics or insistent that black children who fail have just been labeled or whatever, that we don't even bother talking to the people who need our help the most. I've been extremely poor, I've lived in the hood, I've had my kids in 'hood'schools. I've talked to other black parents in these schools, and the things that the middle class take for granted and do for their children, poor and/or uneducated blacks often just don't know to do or how to do. Like reading to their kids every night when they are pre-schoolers or teaching them the alphabet. The children of educated people come to kindergarten knowing their colors, knowing basic shapes, knowing how to count, knowing the alphabet, sometimes even already knowing how to read. It's not that the children of the poor don't want their kids to know this stuff, it's that they think the school is going to teach them...no one ever told them about how to prepare a child for school so that they come with the very basics of education already in their minds. Instead of preaching about what white folks did to cause this dynamic in our community, why aren't we preaching about how we can change it? Why aren't we spreading the word to our fellow black people who are at a disadvantage because of economics of their own poor education about how to prepare their children for education in the school system? How to support and help their children do well in school? Is it perhaps because some of us truly believe that whites ultimately control our behavior? that they control what we do or don't do? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: keto EMAIL: IP: 76.27.220.243 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 12:25:34 PM Trula, Your either/or scenario is spurious. There are black people spreading those positive messages as well as blacks attacking the roots of white racism. There are more than enough of us to battle on all fronts. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Jo EMAIL: lsdpout@yahoo.com IP: 24.126.234.84 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 12:58:24 PM Poverty does not cause behavior. If it did, all poor people would share some common behaviors, but they don't. Behavior, however, can cause poverty. People who behave in certain ways (lazy, too much TV, laughing at trouble, dismissing education, using drugs, etc) almost invariably end up poor, or remain that way. Poverty is the natural state of a human being. We come into this world naked and helpless. In order to survive, we must take action. We must fill our stomachs and shelter ourselves from the enviornment. Once we do that, we must begin to fill our mind with knowledge and skills we can use to make our lives more productive and fruitful. TV doesn't do that. Being lazy doesn't do that. Anti-social attitudes don't do that. Selling drugs can feed you for a little while, but it's not an effective long-term strategy. If you were born to parent(s) who don't realize these simple truths, you probably won't learn them either, and neither will your children. Thus, you and those you fail to teach will remain as you were born: poor and helpless. Poverty is the result, not the cause. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Chauncey EMAIL: IP: 169.230.100.245 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 02:17:52 PM Ed writes: I say this once before here and I say it again - worry about your iPod playstation xbox zoloft middle-class teenagers more than the poor kids. huh? correct me if i'm wrong, but last i checked, white teens weren't killing black kids. ed continues: The poor kids don't take nothing for granted nor feel entitled and actually know they have to work to get ahead.... is this why they choose not to work or get ahead? the black high school dropout rate is obscenely high. are you just making stuff up, or is anything you say based on, you know, facts? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ozone EMAIL: IP: 70.168.115.169 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 02:20:18 PM I was adopted inside of my biological family. To my grandmothers brother. My family lived in Houston in poverty and I was the 7th of 8 kids. It was my biological mothers intent to have one of her sons save from the rough streeets of Houston and therefore after adoption I was whisked away to the north. I never attended a public school and was the only black child in my school until I was a sophmore. I went to a private school. My parents worked two/three jobs to give me an education I know my siblings did not get. I was raised in the country away from the noise of the city until 7 or 8th grade. In retrospect, my adopted mother wanted something better and different for me. Catholic school, Republican household, chores around the house,,, Today, I can see the difference between me and my siblings. As well as me and other whites who went to private or public school. One thing I must admit is that whites are no smarter than blacks and in many instances are inferior educationally than me. It is their whiteness that immediately gives them a pass. They look at me and my skin color and make assumptions, but when they open their mouth and minds they are blank and no better than anyone else. So, although they may become city managers, city council members, senators or congresspersons,,, they by and large get there because of their skin color and the votes of people with their same skin color. That does not make them the best candidate,,, but better at winning popularity contests. The problems in the US have been created by the very people that have high degrees, went to Ivy schools, grew up in priviledged homes and neighborhoods. You don't find people that grew up poor running this country and making life decisions. The US education system needs to change but not by the folks; or type of folks running the country. In the courts of law I have beat every attorney thrown at me; white and Black. Every policy I have helped draft have made visible progress. To the point even whites vote for them. There is a way to turn around the ship of Black youth underachievement, but don't look for it to come from the status quo. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: skeptic EMAIL: IP: 70.124.86.36 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 04:17:27 PM Sitting here watching "Heroes in Iraq" and seeing a guy soar on his motorcycle with no legs, all I can say is "whine on" those of you who have been given every opportunity known to man but still blame others for your failures. For all but the bottom 5% in terms of ability, poverty in the US is a choice. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 24.251.12.146 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/26/2007 04:20:27 PM Trula - Why does there have to be an either/or? Black poor people who are responsible for their own detriment need to be held accountable. People who support, create or ignore systems that keep underprivileged people deprived - white OR black - need to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying. All of you all who think that I and others like me are on some "the white man is the devil" tip need to get over it. Because that's not what I'm saying - especially when one considers the number of blacks involved in keeping other blacks down. I'm just saying that racism, classism and other systems that create hierarchy are partially responsible for how the underprivileged function. If you refuse to acknowledge that, then the problem will never be fixed. Why doesn't that make sense to some of you? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ed EMAIL: IP: 68.217.9.240 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 04:40:15 PM Chauncy writes: the black high school dropout rate is obscenely high. Yet he ignores the obscenely high dropout rates about Whites, particulary White males over the past 20 years. He does not acknowledge that fact because Chauncy only want to make Blacks appear inferior and headed in the wrong direction. The dropout rate overall in America is growing at an alarming rate, but don't tell Chauncey..he only want Blacks to look bad with his selectively chosen data. Mannerly, your diatribe is typical. All you want is someone to take your racist or self-hating views under the guise of "critical analysis" and it simply won't work here....people are too smart for that. Get over it. Yawn at the self-haters and racists..if they really care so much then they would agree to paying more taxes to support social programs Bush & GOP cut over the past 8 years. But they rather come here and get bigot with it.... ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Chauncey EMAIL: IP: 169.230.100.245 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 05:27:06 PM Ed, the black high school dropout rate is much higher. your explanation? and why didn't you address the point about white kids killing blacks? and what does the white high school drop out rate have to do with anything? we're talking about blacks, not whites. just because a white people do [x] doesn't mean black people should do [x]. you seem pretty dumb. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 06:24:03 PM ETS: Every nation in the world has classism, even 100% homogeneous racial and ethnic nations. Here is another news flash. 7% of whites are poor. All blacks will also never get out of poverty. What a lot of people are saying is that there is no reason for 20% of blacks to live in poverty and that there may be a structural element to this poverty, but that is not responsible for 20% being poor. To make it simple, much of the poverty you see in the black community is due to the dysfunctional behaviors of those in poverty. Another way to look at it. If all forms of discrimination ended tomorrow, 5 years from now do you really believe that the majority of blacks living in poverty today would not be there? Some on this board seem to assume that, and others do not. Ed is a liar. The high school drop out rate has not been "increasing" in the US over all, in fact the opposite, but it is slowly moving up. So, no, black people are not keeping with the trend line. www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/index.php?year=1995&level=nation&mode=graph&state=0&submeasure=36 ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 06:33:39 PM Ed: Please tells us why 1/5 of black people live in poverty and almost half of black children are born into poverty in America in 2007. Once you identify the problems, please give us your ideal solution to these problems. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 24.251.12.146 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/26/2007 07:11:10 PM Chauncey - Are you suggesting that white kids do not kill black kids? Anonymous - I'm saying that both the structure and the individuals are responsible. Period. And I doubt anyone on here thinks things would drastically improve in 5 years if there was no racism. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 07:30:37 PM ETS: In my opinion all this is fluff. It is not the root of the issue, just a symptom. It is like saying "this child has is coughing" and then arguing about what type of cough it is. If you want to know what the disease is that is causing the cough the root no one on this board has addressed it. My best advice is to read "The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature", by Steven Pinker (experimental Psych Professor at Harvard (formerly MIT). ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: kelsey james EMAIL: IP: 207.200.116.196 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 07:45:51 PM Why is it "blaming" people to recognize that certain behaviors have certain consequences? We often live our lives unconsciously, living our lives day by day, taking care of business, etc. If someone points out that something we are doing is harmful to us and our children, shouldn't we be happy about it? Isn't it patronizing to withhold truth from someone else because you think they can't handle it?? Of course parents need to have books in their homes, read to their children, have real conversations with them, and turn the tv off occasionally. Of course parents need to discipline consistently, not just when their irritable. And of course kids need to learn to respect others, be polite, and have self-control. I assume all parents want the best for their kids and are happy to get any information that helps them. Then as educators, neighbors, even lawyers, we can looks for ways to help parents do these things. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Chauncey EMAIL: IP: 169.230.100.245 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 07:47:12 PM ETS, let me clarify. ed said that we need to be worrying more about "iPod playstation xbox zoloft middle-class teenagers" (read: white kids, because let's be honest: the black delinquents we're talking about here don't take zoloft; nor, obviously, are they middle-class) than we need to be worrying about poor kids (we're talking about poor black kids here, so he actually meant to write "poor black kids" instead of "poor kids"). this struck me as odd, given the fact that the primary murderers of black people and kids are, well, other black people and kids. the middle-class zoloft teens, in other words, pose very little threat to blacks. now, i suppose some deranged white kid in the past has killed some black kid somewhere in america (possibly as part of some sort of high school massacre), but i hope you understand that that doesn't change anything (ed clearly doesn't understand why, but i suspect you do). white middle-class kids kill blacks, but not nearly as often as blacks kill blacks. so to say that we need to worry more about white zoloft kids than delinquent black kids is completely retarded. only stupid people make arguments like that. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 08:17:24 PM Chauncey: We should stay on topic and not drift into crime issues...Ed does not want to go there. It has been talked about on this site before that blacks kill and rape far more whites than the other way around and this has been true sinc ethe 1970s. Look at rape: frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=28129 "In Table 42, entitled "Personal crimes of violence, 2005, percent distribution of single-offender victimizations, based on race of victims, by type of crime and perceived race of offender," we learn that there were 111,590 white victims and 36,620 black victims of rape or sexual assault in 2005. (The number of rapes is not distinguished from those of sexual assaults; it is maddening that sexual assault, an ill-defined category that covers various types of criminal acts ranging from penetration to inappropriate touching, is conflated with the more specific crime of rape.) In the 111,590 cases in which the victim of rape or sexual assault was white, 44.5 percent of the offenders were white, and 33.6 percent of the offenders were black. In the 36,620 cases in which the victim of rape or sexual assault was black, 100 percent of the offenders were black, and 0.0 percent of the offenders were white. The table explains that 0.0 percent means that there were under 10 incidents nationally. The table does not gives statistics for Hispanic victims and offenders. But the bottom line on interracial white/black and black/white rape is clear: In the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man. " That is just rape. I think we should stay on topic and stop point fingers at different groups for different things or Ed might not like where that goes. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: keto EMAIL: IP: 76.27.220.243 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 09:15:24 PM Take it to Amren, guys. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 09:59:04 PM Keto: Unfortunately the article was not based on a white nationalist rant. It was based on government stats: To see the real truth of the matter, let us take a look at the Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2005. (Go to the linked document, and under "Victims and Offenders" download the pdf file for 2005.) Anyone can read it. As I said, Ed does not want to play this game with Chauncey. Back to the topic. No who is focused on "environment" or "structural racism/classicism has stated anything specific. Ed's conclusion thus far is...it is an "American problem"...which is largely false as has been shown. Then his solution has been "throw more money at it, pay more taxes". ETS has said nothing at all in this regard just that "we need to look at it holistically". That's nice. Meaning what? No one has defined the issues. They have simply said, "well stereotyping is bad" and Ms. Payne is wrong, and she is white. Okay. That means next to nothing. Seems like a reactionary rant based on cognitive dissonance. Anton Chekhov said, "Man will become better when you show him what he is like". That is partially true. Chekhov assumed that people will accept their reality once it is reflected to them in the mirror. Obviously ETS and Ed are incapable of doing that. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ed EMAIL: IP: 68.217.9.240 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 09:59:48 PM Wow, kind of pathetic when they have to keep posting nothing but diatribe bigotry, hurling insults and psuedo-facts. I really like the one where someone said I'm a liar about the increasing USA high school dropout rate but conceded that the trend exist. It is obvious there is a gamemanship of bigots here who want to crap on Black culture under the guise of "critical analysis" and Charles Murray style analysis. Chauncey also want to ignore the fact that more White middle class kids kill themselves in automobile accidents than Black kids kill each other but he want to sensationalize Black on Black violence, even though more middle class kids are killed because mommy/daddy gave them a car to drive around in. Chauncy only want to point out 11pm news stories killings of Black gang culture which is small compare to Heidi & friends at Parkview High crashing into a tree after a teenage drinking party. Anony-mouse want to throw his Charles Murray style of anti-Black psuedo-stats out there hoping it brings across a point. Yawn. Bottom line, poor Black kids have just as much as a chance to make it in this country as anyone else, if not a better chance. The middle class is upset because they are seeing their status go away overseas and want to blame Mexicans and poor Blacks and hip-hop. Get over it - you voted for Bush, deal with it.... ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ed EMAIL: IP: 68.217.9.240 URL: DATE: 05/26/2007 10:05:21 PM BTW, where did this crime thing come into play anyway? I thought this was scapegoating poor Black kids by claiming they all are ignoring their teachers and laughing at them? Wow, the bigots & self-haters really wanted to get that "violent, crazed Negro culture" portrayal into this dicussion, didn't they? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com DATE: 05/26/2007 11:00:27 PM Yep, usual suspects destroy another thread. I think Ed and Chauncey should get a room and work out their homoerotic interracial angst. Since yesterday at 2PM Ed has posted on this thread Posted by: Ed | May 26, 2007 10:05 PM Posted by: Ed | May 26, 2007 09:59 PM Posted by: Ed | May 26, 2007 04:40 PM Posted by: Ed | May 26, 2007 09:48 AM Posted by: Ed | May 24, 2007 09:06 PM Posted by: Ed | May 24, 2007 07:52 PM Posted by: Ed | May 24, 2007 07:59 PM Posted by: Ed | May 24, 2007 08:33 PM He has used the words bigot 9X self-hate 3X racist 2X all in referring to other posters. You would think he would have something better to do over a holiday weekend besides derail threads and add no value to them but name calling and arguing with people over nothing. To my knowledge he has define no issues, no solutions, but "don't vote for Bush and pay more taxes". Oh and a lot of comparing white middle class "bratism" to real serious urban endemic problems in the black community as if they are equivalent. I thought this site was called Black Professor. Not "Black_Liquor_Store_Corner_Rants.com. My mistake. Internet Addiction Is Real: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_addiction Knowing is half the battle. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: rikyrah EMAIL: siport27@aol.com IP: 172.166.128.189 URL: DATE: 05/27/2007 12:12:11 AM And as the New York Times reported awhile back, poor children also are spoken to far less as young children and aren't read to much at all, which leaves them with a severe deficit that is evident in kindergarten/first grade. By third grade, most teachers can predict whether or not a child will be successful in school based upon vocabulary/reading skills. Expecting the schools to make up this deficit -- considering that there is often little support for education in the home -- is close to impossible. More than ever before, we are becoming a society that is clearly divided into educational haves and have-nots, with a permanent uneducated underclass that cannot fend for itself. I took a class on this, and I just sat there, open-mouthed when it was over. Just looking at the statistics on it really made me sad. It's not just the spoken word, but the kinds of words. When they went into the statistics about the numbers of affirmations that upper-middle class kids received over working class and poor kids, and how it accumulated..those numbers made me sad too. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com DATE: 05/27/2007 01:00:56 AM Rikyrah: Here is something else we should take into account. Poverty does have an effect, not just on educational attainment scores but overall ability to learn. "Together with several colleagues, Turkheimer searched for data on twins from a wider range of families. He found what he needed in a sample from the 1970’s of more than 50,000 American infants, many from poor families, who had taken I.Q. tests at age 7. In a widely-discussed 2003 article, he found that, as anticipated, virtually all the variation in I.Q. scores for twins in the sample with wealthy parents can be attributed to genetics. The big surprise is among the poorest families. Contrary to what you might expect, for those children, the I.Q.’s of identical twins vary just as much as the I.Q.’s of fraternal twins. The impact of growing up impoverished overwhelms these children’s genetic capacities. In other words, home life is the critical factor for youngsters at the bottom of the economic barrel. “If you have a chaotic environment, kids’ genetic potential doesn’t have a chance to be expressed,” Turkheimer explains. “Well-off families can provide the mental stimulation needed for genes to build the brain circuitry for intelligence.” This provocative finding was confirmed in a study published last year. An analysis of the reading ability of middle-aged twins showed that even half a century after childhood, family background still has a big effect — but only for children who grew up poor. Meanwhile, Turkheimer is studying a sample of twins who took the National Merit Scholarship exam, and the results are the same. Although these are the academic elite, who mostly come from well-off homes, variations in family circumstances still matter: children in the wealthiest households have the greatest opportunity to develop all their genetic capacities. The better-off the family, the more a child’s genetic potential is likely to be, as Turkheimer puts it, “maxed out.” " http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/magazine/23wwln_idealab.html?ex=1180411200&en=60a84f0bfd8556f1&ei=5070 Basically IQ might be 75% genetic, or about, however what they found is children who grow up in poverty don't get a chance to express their genetic potential the way middle class and wealthy kids do largely due to environment, especially home environment. What this means is, we often here, since the Bell Curve came out that black pepole have an average IQ of 85, which is 15 points lower than whites, and like 20+ points lower than Asians. The thing is THIS IS LIKELY NOT GENETIC. 20% of blacks live in poverty, and the further back you go in history the more people grew up in poverty. This means a large amount of black adults and children are "stunted" due to the environment they were raised in. This makes what you just said in your last post more critical. We need to do more to stimulate our kids to make up for their environment, especially in the homes, especially if you are poor. More: "Yet what is really remarkable is how big a difference the adopting families’ backgrounds made all the same. The average I.Q. of children from well-to-do parents who were placed with families from the same social stratum was 119.6. But when such infants were adopted by poor families, their average I.Q. was 107.5 — 12 points lower. The same holds true for children born into impoverished families: youngsters adopted by parents of similarly modest means had average I.Q.’s of 92.4, while the I.Q.’s of those placed with well-off parents averaged 103.6. These studies confirm that environment matters — the only, and crucial, difference between these children is the lives they have led." These are things that black people anywhere have full control over and can change, regardless of anything outside the home or community. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/27/2007 01:22:22 AM and for know where I'm going with the last post is here... success in school correlates highly with success in life because many of the skill sets are the same as the American Psychological Association has found. http://www.apa.org/releases/success.html "WASHINGTON — Intelligence in the workplace is not that different from intelligence at school, according to the results of a meta-analysis of over one hundred studies involving more than 20,000 people. The findings contradict the popular notion that abilities required for success in the real world differ greatly from what is needed to achieve success in the classroom. The results are published in the January issue of the American Psychological Association’s (APA) Journal of Personality and Social Psychology." All of these things are interconnected despite the denial in some quarters (well in one delusional brain) in this thread. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Trula EMAIL: trulamama@gmail.com IP: 166.165.157.49 URL: http://www.mspmedia.net/pgb.html DATE: 05/27/2007 08:37:53 AM @keto: you wrote - There are black people spreading those positive messages Really? I don't see that. I don't see large numbers of educated black people actually talking to poor black parents in urban schools about how they can support their children in schools. I do not see large numbers of educated blacks writing books or articles about black self-responsibility. I do see large numbers of educated blacks talking and walking around the idea that black people have any culpability in this...personally I think this is indicative of internalized racism, that so many of us seem to have a belief that black adults are child-like, passive people who will forever be victims who can't take charge of themselves. @ETS: to clarify, it is not an either/or scenario with me. I do understand looking at the school issue in context. I am just not sure how it is relevant in a discussion with black people about black people. We know racism exists and has an impact on our culture! including how our children are educated in schools. You're preaching to the choir on that one. My point is, while we are advocating for society to change, what are we going to do for our people in the meantime? I feel like, there are so many of us in a position to help but instead of helping our fellow black people we sit on our hands and say, It's society's fault, not ours. I disagree, we, black people, have had a part in continuing what has happened to us. I get frustrated in these conversations because I get the distinct impression that what is implied is that white people 'made' us this way, and we have to passively accept it until they decide to change it. Take white people out of the picture. If they were all gone tomorrow, what would we do to change things? What are your suggestions for how disadvantaged black people can help themselves and their children? While we are waiting for white American culture in general to change and be accountable, what can we do to help black culture change and be accountable? What can we do right now? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Trula EMAIL: trulamama@gmail.com IP: 166.165.157.49 URL: http://www.mspmedia.net/pgb.html DATE: 05/27/2007 08:39:06 AM @keto: you wrote - There are black people spreading those positive messages Really? I don't see that. I don't see large numbers of educated black people actually talking to poor black parents in urban schools about how they can support their children in schools. I do not see large numbers of educated blacks writing books or articles about black self-responsibility. I do see large numbers of educated blacks talking and walking around the idea that black people have any culpability in this...personally I think this is indicative of internalized racism, that so many of us seem to have a belief that black adults are child-like, passive people who will forever be victims who can't take charge of themselves. @ETS: to clarify, it is not an either/or scenario with me. I do understand looking at the school issue in context. I am just not sure how it is relevant in a discussion with black people about black people. We know racism exists and has an impact on our culture! including how our children are educated in schools. You're preaching to the choir on that one. My point is, while we are advocating for society to change, what are we going to do for our people in the meantime? I feel like, there are so many of us in a position to help but instead of helping our fellow black people we sit on our hands and say, It's society's fault, not ours. I disagree, we, black people, have had a part in continuing what has happened to us. I get frustrated in these conversations because I get the distinct impression that what is implied is that white people 'made' us this way, and we have to passively accept it until they decide to change it. Take white people out of the picture. If they were all gone tomorrow, what would we do to change things? What are your suggestions for how disadvantaged black people can help themselves and their children? While we are waiting for white American culture in general to change and be accountable, what can we do to help black culture change and be accountable? What can we do right now? ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: cnulan EMAIL: cnulan@swbell.net IP: 65.69.77.51 URL: http://www.frontlinemultimedia.net DATE: 05/27/2007 09:31:33 AM
personally I think this is indicative of internalized racism, that so many of us seem to have a belief that black adults are child-like, passive people who will forever be victims who can't take charge of themselves.What utter nonsense..., some of us are just sick to death of systematic lying about Black folks. That there are kneegrows only too happy to take up this pastime - and pretend that they're independant thinkers off the plantation or in the vanguard of a plurality - just makes it all the more difficult to stomach.
While we are waiting for white American culture in general to change and be accountable, what can we do to help black culture change and be accountable? What can we do right now?Stop participating so tirelessly and gleefully in racist hypocrisy and above all else, just stop lying about Black folks. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 24.251.12.146 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/27/2007 04:47:40 PM Trula - I think you and I are eye to eye. I'm not implying that white people made us a certain way. I'm just saying that blacks didn't get to their current state and aren't kept in their current state by themselves. Yes, blacks - poor blacks and privileged blacks who have the power to influence yet choose not to - are both partially responsible and must do something. But institutional racism/classism is real and must be addressed as well. Anonymous - If it's not clear by now why I think looking at the state of poor blacks and solely blaming them for their problems is unacceptable, I really don't know what else to say. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ed EMAIL: IP: 68.217.9.240 URL: DATE: 05/27/2007 06:42:17 PM Dragon Horse, In your psuedo-analysis of my log activity, did you notice my cluster? It shows a life balance. Now do you really want me to talk about your overall historic pattern and provide real analysis to talk about? Or is it this is the best alternative you had to bring after what I posted? This is what I think... ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ed EMAIL: IP: 68.217.9.240 URL: DATE: 05/27/2007 06:56:17 PM I get frustrated in these conversations because I get the distinct impression that what is implied is that white people 'made' us this way. Hmmm..they ship people from Africa to make Blacks slaves, made enslaved Blacks learn their language religious and culture, fought each other in the Civil War for enslaved Black freedom, created laws to suppress freed Blacks from reading or voting, created mass media propaganda to show Blacks only in a negative, inferior light.....oh yeah, trula, they didn't make African-American, we just came here and did all that too ourselves the past hundred years. It is said to see our people so quick to deny our history and want to devalue or deny the damage slavery and oppression caused... Spare me the crap about only Blacks can change themselves out of this situation. Until we all get rid of the established entities that actively seek to supress/oppress Black progress (the mass media and access to money), then all Blacks can do is fend for themselves against a machine that people like Trula want to deny exist. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Chauncey EMAIL: IP: 169.230.100.245 URL: DATE: 05/27/2007 07:03:47 PM they ship people from Africa to make Blacks slaves, made enslaved Blacks learn their language religious and culture, fought each other in the Civil War for enslaved Black freedom, created laws to suppress freed Blacks from reading or voting, created mass media propaganda to show Blacks only in a negative, inferior light.....oh yeah, trula, they didn't make African-American, we just came here and did all that too ourselves the past hundred years. last i checked, all this stuff happened, well, a long time ago. a very long time ago. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/27/2007 07:34:24 PM Chauncey: You have to understand that Ed is having a kneegrow moment. Ed really truly believes he said something intelligent and valuable. Although no one else can understand what the hell he is talking about. That speaks to mental illness. If you don't know what that is. It is when low class black people are confronted with something they don't like. They start to foam at the mouth and rant uncontrollably, usually waving their hands in the air, using a lot of colorful adjective and threatening physical violence. Ed has reframed from going to the deep dark depths of negrotude, but he is hoving around the toilet ready to jump in. If you want an example of how black people like Ed behave offline in their neighorhood in similar situations please: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8giUexVFI-k&mode=related&search= This is Ed's typical reaction to anything rational. You have to understand, Ed is not talking to you. He is talking to himself, making excuses for why he hasn't accomplished much. Everytime you tell him "he has control" it upsets him because he needs to look in the mirror. My advice is not to take him seriously. He is a clown troll just like Crackhead Baby. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Ed EMAIL: IP: 68.217.9.240 URL: DATE: 05/27/2007 08:30:39 PM Chauncey said that stuff happened a very long time ago. Chauncy, anytime you want to introduce yourself to Black elders just to tell them Jim Crow happened a long time ago, try it. Put up or shut up. Chauncey could not respond to the fact more middle class White teenagers are killed in auto accidents (and also kill others in auto accidents) than teenage Black-on-Black murders. Yet he can't acknowledge this because we all know he is only here to argue only rhetoric condescending of Blacks. I'm more concerned of middle class teenage drivers killing people on these roads than some stereotypical poor Black kids that laugh at his teachers.... ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 208.119.144.23 URL: DATE: 05/27/2007 08:59:56 PM Each one teach one..lift as you climb..dream the impossible dream..inspire children. first, these are children. To do well discipline must be taught. This can be achieved in the home or the school. Discipline..If a poor child was neglected in the home..more time will be need to discipline the child to focusing on him or herslf for learning. Behavior problem will be given back to the child and consequences will be enforced by the teacher. The child must adapt to the learning environment..the teacher must adapt to the tearning style of the student. I am not interested in how parents are failing their children as why children who come from poverty are mistreated in the schools. If you don't love teaching children, you need to find a job elsewhere. The learning environment should be a kids zone..a safe place for children to forget that home is hell..but school will provide you with the resources to be the best you can be. I read Rudy Payne book, and it support the way of thinking of many teachers in the school system in my city. The book excuses teachers from teaching those students who they hate showing up in their classrooms who is going to make the 6 hours if that many a long 6 hours. I have been in some wonderful teachers classrooms. You can almost tell from the way the classroom is designed that this is a teacher committed to teaching. I have been cornered by students who thought it was cute..but letting them know, not on my watch..you need to take a seat be quiet and listen because you are in school and not on the streets. Those who want to test me, send them to the office and the principal will disciple..because the principals don't want to spend his or her day babysitting. The students will get the message. Some teachers can tell you everything that's going on in that child's household, but that child can not spell, read, or write. What's wrong with that picture? A teacher that does not know how to teach. And the majority of the teachers are females who are fearful of their students. How can you teach in an environment were you are afraid of your own studentsjust because of their economical situation? The students are not stupid, they think the teacher don't like them and they are right, sometimes Each one..teach one ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/27/2007 09:06:39 PM "Chauncey could not respond to the fact more middle class White teenagers are killed in auto accidents (and also kill others in auto accidents) than teenage Black-on-Black murders. Yet he can't acknowledge this because we all know he is only here to argue only rhetoric condescending of Blacks." That is asinine. Whites are 66% of the population, blacks are 13%. More whites die of heart disease than blacks just due to sheer numbers, that in no way says that heard disease is not endemic in the black community. This is why we "norm" for things when comparing different populations. Anyone educated should know that. Take a prob/stats 101 class. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@Hotmail.com IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com DATE: 05/27/2007 09:58:32 PM knowledge for the plebs Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. Ayn Rand A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. Ayn Rand Evil requires the sanction of the victim. Ayn Rand Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual). Ayn Rand Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. Ayn Rand The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap. Ayn Rand When man learns to understand and control his own behavior as well as he is learning to understand and control the behavior of crop plants and domestic animals, he may be justified in believing that he has become civilized. Ayn Rand ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ken EMAIL: IP: 24.245.18.8 URL: DATE: 05/28/2007 01:43:22 AM I have read this whole post, and I was surprised at how Ruby Payne's personal observations about the poor were taken to be directed at Blacks. She was talking about general observations she has witnessed in her dealings with children of poor. I also have noticed these same things. I had a day care for some time in an urban setting, all the children I had were from single family homes (no father). Likely this was one of the reasons my daycare was chosen. When I would drop something by to the homes of my clients. The kids would be sleeping in the living area with the television blaring well after 10:00 p.m. Visitors would drop in and out. Sometimes 2 or 3 people would be smoking right in the same room as the kid(s). The light bulbs would burn out, but there wouldn't be anyone who would go pick up a light bulb and replace the bulbs. One place I stopped at, there was only one bulb working in the apartment. Another, the bathtub was plugged for weeks, the landlord never came around and the woman didn't seem to have the mechanical aptitude to solve the problem. Another, spilt juice would just remain on the floor indefinently. I am not sure what would trigger the clean up. Being poor with 2 to 5 kids is tough. The little mechanical things a man does aren't so little anymore and add up. Trying to get groceries without a car is a big project. Going to the laundry mat to wash clothes. By the time the single mother attempts a social life and figures out something to cook, the ability to perform thoughtful careful discipline is an accomplishment for people who are well organized, and near impossible for someone who has never considered regimenting themselves. Its hard to know what the right right answer is. You wish you could create something foundational when you help one of these families, but it seems most of the time all that happens is you stopped a crisis until the next crisis. You can try and say, next time do this, and they will remember what you said when you are called for help again to solve the same problem, but there never seems to be anyway to stop the cylce that brings the family back to the crisis. I am not sure what effect this has on the children in these houses. Do you believe solving problems is possible for your family? What is it like to have a mom who has children with 2 or three men and a dad who doesn't care. Or have your dad not care while your sibling's dad does? I myself can't even imagine how that would effect me, but I know it would play out somewhere. I am not sure what the answer to this is, maybe its 3 or 4 strong families adopting one family and helping, while preaching to the future families the value of loving your children above your own interests. This isn't a race issue, although currently one race is effected more than the others, but not exclusively. Its a segregated poverty single parent issue. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Chauncey EMAIL: IP: 169.230.100.245 URL: DATE: 05/28/2007 04:00:09 AM black dads don't take care of their kids. nothing new there. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Chauncey EMAIL: IP: 169.230.100.245 URL: DATE: 05/28/2007 04:10:23 AM Anonymous, yes, ed is quite dumb. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: bigmaconcampus EMAIL: IP: 71.247.219.240 URL: DATE: 05/28/2007 09:26:17 AM to the legions here who are so offended at the suggestion that black children have special problems, and love to point out that white children also have problems, fine, you win. black children are doing great. i won't worry about them anymore. i'll just worry about my own children. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: cnulan EMAIL: cnulan@oeiad.com IP: 64.151.32.155 URL: http://www.frontlinemultimedia.net DATE: 05/28/2007 10:29:18 AM It is insufferable enough to have to wade through and respond to outright racist diatribes against Black poor. Passively reading and rolling over for the recycled garbage that you've internalized and now want to socialize as widely as possible in the Black community - is simply not going to happen.
The problem with much "culture of poverty" analysis, however, is that it seems to blame poor people for being poor. See for example any of Bill Cosby’s infamous pronouncements. There is a need for interventions that recognize some of the debilitating effects of poverty without assigning blame to its victims. Poor parents, like parents of all income levels, want what’s best for their children.Not a single member of the kneegrowdamnation chorus provided, or could provide for that matter, an imitatable example of being the change they want to see. Because when it gets right down to it, what each of you Sgt. Vernon Waters wannabes really want to see is nothing short of a final solution. That same hard contempt that you express for poor Black folks (both adults and children) is what poisons the atmosphere of schools - making them holding pens of ostracism and far less conducive to the learning and achievement that were once routine in formerly segregated Black schools like the legendary Sumner Academy in Kansas City Kansas..., Each and every member of the kneegrowdamnation chorus at Blackprof, Chauncey, Dragon Horse, BMOC, and a host of less hypergraphic others, is simply a broken machine, endlessly spewing and reapplying the racist memes by which their own once living minds were infected and overcome. Face it fellas, you're racist contagion vectors mechanically spreading your disease on every.single.thread you contaminate. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 24.251.12.146 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/28/2007 12:09:26 PM Without question slavery happened a long time ago, but if you don't think institutions and systems remain in place that create privilege and disadvantage you're fooling yourself. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/28/2007 12:27:57 PM ETS: Please name these institutions and give us an example of how they keep only 20% of black poor and the rest not. If it is so apparent it should not be that hard to illustrate. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: EMAIL: IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: DATE: 05/28/2007 12:50:04 PM Cnulan: Most of what you said is a rant which I won't address...if you have any problem with any poster take it up with the management. "an imitatable example of being the change they want to see. " this is wrong. My wife and I do volunteer to help tutor kids in the hood in the DC metro area in fact one of our kids will be off to college this year, a boy from the the worst hood in DC, smart as hell, likely will get into a second tier school. He wants to be an Special Agent in the FBI. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: Dragon Horse EMAIL: bolezn@hotmail.com IP: 68.106.98.16 URL: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com/ DATE: 05/28/2007 12:52:36 PM last Anon post was me. ----- COMMENT: AUTHOR: ETS EMAIL: IP: 24.251.12.146 URL: http://YBPguide.com DATE: 05/28/2007 12:54:58 PM LOL. Dragon Horse, I haven't talked to you much on this site so I don't know how you operate. But part of me thinks that you are not really that interested in reading what I have to type. : ) Just because some individuals experience success does not mean that systems are not in place that make it difficult for others to achieve the same things. Your being successful does not mean it is attainable for all. Anyway ... Like you requested, I'm going to provide some examples. I strongly encourage you to study them. Look at the funding models, curriculi and overall structure at inner city and rural schools and compare them to those at well-off, middle class schools. You can do the same with public historically black institutions and the